Inverted front forks?

[cowpoos]

bling bling bling....... but can you ride it

you wanna race !!!!! or a game of corner chicken old man????

[cowpoos]

Aside from the good things people have posted, USD forks do apparently have the disadvantage of more total weight. Apparently you have to have a stonger/less bendy (Re: heavier) top of the forks to get the advantage of the less bendy bottom bit. This can push cost up as well as more raw materiels and possibly and extra weld or four for the extra bracing. Or instead 'better' materials (Re: expensive) for construction to not increase the weight.

Apparently.

yes the are heavier...conventional forks are lighter than rwu cartridge...and usd cartridge forks are a little heavier still....but the unsprung weight is lighter on usd than either of the other two

[Wolf]

Then I' think I'll work on this brilliant idea I've had. If turning the forks upside down is a good thing, why not extend it and reverse the forks? Put the back wheel (and swing arm) at the front and the front wheel (and forks) at the back.

Elf's bikes had a parallel swing arm on the front to reduce diving under deceleration/braking.

My old Zundapp had a trailing link suspension on the front so it was almost like a swing arm, albeit a very short one. Used to rise on braking (rapid deceleration due to engine braking never occured, it being a blue-smoke).

[Mental Trousers]

Telelever was a single A arm that still used forks. It was a kludge and was more expensive and less efficient. Really the only thing it had going for it was the inherent anti-dive properties.

The Duolever is BMW's name for the Hossack. The Hossack frontend is essentially what the Britten V1000 etc use. It's a parallelagram style arrangement that uses unequal upper and lower A arms. Changing the lengths, angles and place they're attached gives a huge amount of control over the front end, including the ability to change the caster angle (rake) dynamically and tunable anti-dive behaviour.

The Hossack *should* be what all bikes use if you ask me. Economically they're cheaper to produce than forks, they offer superior performance and handling characteristics and can be adjusted to suit a wide variety of riders and styles. Unfortunately, forks do what people want well enough, they're already entrenched in the industry and Hossack style frontends can be a complete bitch to get right. They take a large amount of time to set up correctly compared to forks.

[Mental Trousers]

hmmm......that was ment to be funny right?????

Only partly. I used to do that when riding hard. Took a bit of fiddling to get the right idle speed so it wouldn't push when braking, but I was able to get into corners a hell of a lot smoother as it was more like a smoker under brakes, ie no engine braking.

[aff-man]

I noticed After riding zxr400 with usd forks and going to the cbr600 and now gsxr600 with RWU's, that the usd were a lot more firm. This lead to two/ a few tank slappers. The cbr and gixxer are softer but I dunno which i prefer more. If i was racing probably USD but on the road my experience (although very limited) has pushed me to RWU (this being said i have only ever ridden properly bikes 98 and younger, had a few goes on a k3600 and a 03 636 but not enough to really comment on the suspension)

[cowpoos]

I noticed After riding zxr400 with usd forks and going to the cbr600 and now gsxr600 with RWU's, that the usd were a lot more firm. This lead to two/ a few tank slappers. The cbr and gixxer are softer but I dunno which i prefer more. If i was racing probably USD but on the road my experience (although very limited) has pushed me to RWU (this being said i have only ever ridden properly bikes 98 and younger, had a few goes on a k3600 and a 03 636 but not enough to really comment on the suspension)

your feeling the damping...its nothing to do with the type of forks...its to do with how the internals are valved and spring rates

[Ixion]

Elf's bikes had a parallel swing arm on the front to reduce diving under deceleration/braking.

My old Zundapp had a trailing link suspension on the front so it was almost like a swing arm, albeit a very short one. Used to rise on braking (rapid deceleration due to engine braking never occured, it being a blue-smoke).

Ariel Arrow/Leader had a trailing link front too. Was quite common once

[vifferman]

yes the are heavier...conventional forks are lighter than rwu cartridge...and usd cartridge forks are a little heavier still....but the unsprung weight is lighter on usd than either of the other two

Yeah, that's what they say, and what I thought, but are they? :spudwhat:
Right-way-uppers: Unsprung weight is the alloy sliders, a few hundred ml of oil, cartridges/damper mechanism, and springs (I guess).
USD: Unsprung weight is the fork tubes, the piece at the bottom that the axle attaches to, springs. Oil is in the upper bit?? Damper stack etc too??

What's the weight of steel fork tubes plus bracket thingos compared to sliders?
Is there somewhere on the interdweeb that gives this sort of info?

[Marmoot]

That's so not true. Everyone with half a brain (that's me in) knows that USD forks help to reduce world poverty and make Jessica Simpson want to rub you down with the juice from the musk gland of a Guatamalan lesser spotted tree frog.

I like beer.

oh, now we're debating whether the debate is really worth debating or not.

[Wolf]

That's so not true. Everyone with half a brain (that's me in) knows that USD forks help to reduce world poverty and make Jessica Simpson want to rub you down with the juice from the musk gland of a Guatamalan lesser spotted tree frog.

Well, I won't be buying a bike with USD forks then - I don't want a sudden divorce.

[limbimtimwim]

The Duolever is BMW's name for the Hossack. The Hossack frontend is essentially what the Britten V1000 etc use. It's a parallelagram style arrangement that uses unequal upper and lower A arms. Changing the lengths, angles and place they're attached gives a huge amount of control over the front end, including the ability to change the caster angle (rake) dynamically and tunable anti-dive behaviour..

BMW's latest frontend is adjustable electronically too. Aparently it's very good. Can't remember the model.

And, dare I say it, that same bike sounds fantastic down the pit straight of manfield..

[badblackbuell]

Had both road and trail, usd all the way, they take the big hits!

[Windy]

USD's have less unsprung weight. This is very important to handling. You want as little unsprung weight as possible as it makes the job of suspending your bike easier for your forks and shock.

[laRIKin]

I asked a suspension guy today a few questions today, only a few as he was busy.
One the main advantage with USD forks are strength, that is stiffer and better clamping in the treble clamps.
I asked about the unsprung weight. He just said that it is not a easy question to answer and did not even want to think about it, at the moment.
We for a joke got a few different forks and put them on our finger in the middle, to see the balance.
To our surprise, they balanced about in the middle of the length on the forks.

Rik