Poll - Hemets or no Helmets?

[denill]

This subject has attracted widely differing opinions in Another Thread: and a poll on the subject would be interesting?

[Skyryder]

Iniatially I was of the opinion that helemts should be worn. A little bit of logic as to what consitutes a hat and I have changed my mind. Can't see the problem with it. The cortage has the right of way. Well traditionaly it has. So perhaps to settle this question would you ride through a red light in a cortage? Would you 'completly' obey all and every road rule? Should the police issue notices for all and every infringment for cages in a cortage. If bikers are going to be issued tickets for infringments then the same applies to cars etc in a funeral cortage. Imagine the furore if the driver of the herst got ticketed.

In my veiw tradition and repect have the final say.

Skyryder

[Ixion]

For clarification, tradition only calls for "hatlessness" when actually in the cortege, ie following the hearse with the coffin on a very slow pace drive to the church or graveyard.

It does not extend to the journey to the church, or home afterward, which as someone noted in the other thread means the rider must carry his helmet (which is itself in accordance with protocol, men carried their hats).

The cortege is a slow speed procession (originally on foot), behind the body, as mourners pay their respects to the deceased .Originally hymns and psalms would be chanted and the coffin might be censed.

The term does not cover a 100kph journey down the motorway. That is not a cortege.

[Shadows]

Absofuckinglutely. This country is regulated to fuck to the point of becoming an "open prison". So what if helmets are not worn as a mark of respect for the dead in a slow speed procession? How dare the PC nanny state wankers have any sort of problem with that at all?
Time Mr Plod showed a bit of discretion I reckon.

[R6_kid:Me]

i voted no, but its a 50/50 situation really. If for some special reason a person following on a m/c in a cortage (at slow speed) decides they dont need a helmet then it should be allowed. As said already, this does not include going to or from said service, and is only at slow speed.

I also like the idea of carrying the helmet anyway as a sign of respect.

[Hitcher]

I am a staunch supporter for "genuine" traditions and customs. But the non-wearing of helmets in funeral corteges is neither. More like it's something somebody thought they once saw in a biker movie and thought it was "way cool". Like fingerless gloves and having "LOVE" and "HATE" tatooed on one's knuckles. Ride your bike in a cortege as a mark of respect. But don't make up your own "traditions" on the fly and expect the Police to honour them.

[Motu]

And that biker movie they saw was Made In America,where most likely that State has no helmet laws anyway.Copy Cat,like our whole biker culture.

Anyway...do you think we should allow scooters in the cortege? It's supposed to be about respect,and for some people on this site it could be taken as an insult....

[denill]

i voted no, but its a 50/50 situation really. If for some special reason a person following on a m/c in a cortage (at slow speed) decides they dont need a helmet then it should be allowed. As said already, this does not include going to or from said service, and is only at slow speed.
I also like the idea of carrying the helmet anyway as a sign of respect.

Yeah, I voted yes, but I really don't give a shit one way or the other, cos it's not a biggie. That the cop thought so pisses me off a bit though

[sunhuntin]

i voted yes.....but in saying that i would not ride that way everytime, only if the person was very special to me....

[Ixion]

It's nothing to do with any "biker" tradition. The etiquette predates motorcycles by many centuries.

When funeral processions went on foot, the men in the procession would walk bareheaded. A sign of respect.

In about C17 the practice came in of following the corpse in coaches. A man riding in the coach would always remove his hat, and carry it on his knee, there being no reason seen why the mark of respect should not be accorded just because the mourners had decided to ride rather than walk. An interesting note - the professional undertakers do not go uncovered - they wore tall hats with long black weepers - a relic of mediaval times when the "professionals" would have been priests, who wore their hoods as a similar mark of respect.

In the early years of last century motorcars replaced horse coaches. But the courtesy of gentlemen uncovering continued.

If I were to follow in the procession of someone who was not a biker, had nothing to do with the bike scene, I would still ride lidless - unless the family requested otherwise.

The connotation with "bikers" has come about simply because those are the only funerals where mourners will normally follow on motorcycles.

(I wonder if the social class of motorcyclists has something to do with them instinctively clinging to the old mark of respect. Motorcyclists used - I am talking of my youth here - to be drawn mainly from the working classes. And , in the UK, sometimes the upper classes. Both the working and upper classes have a strong instinct for preserving traditional ceremonies and marks of respect. It is the middle class that is iconoclastic. I think perhaps we see that very distinction in the posts here , on this subject)

[denill]

It's nothing to do with any "biker" tradition. The etiquette predates motorcycles by many centuries.

When funeral processions went on foot, the men in the procession would walk bareheaded. A sign of respect.

In about C17 the practice came in of following the corpse in coaches. A man riding in the coach would always remove his hat, and carry it on his knee, there being no reason seen why the mark of respect should not be accorded just because the mourners had decided to ride rather than walk. An interesting note - the professional undertakers do not go uncovered - they wore tall hats with long black weepers - a relic of mediaval times when the "professionals" would have been priests, who wore their hoods as a similar mark of respect.

In the early years of last century motorcars replaced horse coaches. But the courtesy of gentlemen uncovering continued.

If I were to follow in the procession of someone who was not a biker, had nothing to do with the bike scene, I would still ride lidless - unless the family requested otherwise.

The connotation with "bikers" has come about simply because those are the only funerals where mourners will normally follow on motorcycles.

(I wonder if the social class of motorcyclists has something to do with them instinctively clinging to the old mark of respect. Motorcyclists used - I am talking of my youth here - to be drawn mainly from the working classes. And , in the UK, sometimes the upper classes. Both the working and upper classes have a strong instinct for preserving traditional ceremonies and marks of respect. It is the middle class that is iconoclastic. I think perhaps we see that very distinction in the posts here , on this subject)

I think your comments place too grand a viewpoint on the practice. I reckon that in most, (but not all) cases it is just 'the staunch thing' to do.

[Motu]

I think tradition has long gone - I went to a funeral on thurs,it was a Maori funeral so we had the whole bit,lowering the coffin into the ground etc....I haven't been to a graveside burial for many years.We had to drive from the chapel to the gravesite,but we all made our own way there in our own good time,no procession and no lights on (on cemetary grounds)Even though we had Maori elders there and her father was a Tohunga the dress was casual and there wasn't a hat to be seen.It's good to see death being treated in a more natural way,even by those more bound by tradition.

[Brett]

I am generally quite an anti tradition person. I just had my wife graduate from her Bachelor of Human Biology at Auck Uni, and went to the grad ceremony. That sort of tradition just makes me want to crack up laughing at its almost...lunacy.
However, death is one thing that should always have a staunch tradition. Having the tradition sometimes gives the mourners a "set" way to show their grieving. For example, some people may have mixed emotions which they don't quite know how to show/shed, and sometimes, for some people, having a set tradition or custom or whatever that they can follow allows them a safe way of grieving. If it were a biker, someone who made a lifestyle of biking, i can see how the mark of respect would be shown riding lidless.
Alternatively, i can also see how to someone who has been involved in the biker culture might see that as a sign of respect, and thus be drawn to ride lidless to show their personal respect for the deceased.
Personal choice I say, the grieving person is not really for the dead...they are not the ones witnessing it. It is for those who need to show emotions and shed themselves of sadness, as well as to show the family of the deceased support in their loss.

[Skyryder]

I am generally quite an anti tradition person. I just had my wife graduate from her Bachelor of Human Biology at Auck Uni, and went to the grad ceremony. That sort of tradition just makes me want to crack up laughing at its almost...lunacy.

Went to my daughter's graduation. Saw much the same thing but I differ from you in opinion. The difference between you and I is that we are spectors and your wife and my daughter are participants. Seen from that pespective tradition does have some value.

Skyryder

[Brett]

Went to my daughter's graduation. Saw much the same thing but I differ from you in opinion. The difference between you and I is that we are spectors and your wife and my daughter are participants. Seen from that pespective tradition does have some value.

Skyryder

I do know what you mean, i guess. I suppose my original view was sort of arrogant. Our uni's are based on old english tradition, and it is good to maintain some sort of tradition so that those passing through the system feel a sense of achievement once they finish their studies. I mean, who want to study for 3 or 4 years and just get the certificate mailed to them...

I suppose it is the dress that got on my nerves, and the holding of the hat over the graduands head.

I dunno, will have my own chance to access this soon enough when i graduate.