Help

[Ivan]

Sweet guys cheers for the help

[Jamiepo]

No I dont want a slipper clutch for that its what I am used to it is a clutch that you can ride when your bike has no power out of the bend its not for dpwn chaange its just for getting a good launch I got a RG50 and want to adjust the clutch on it so it isnt so stiff etc

ARE YOU DRUNK???

RIding the clutch is not a good thing, it is something to be avoided. As Ixion said on a 2 smoke 125 if you want more revs/torque out of a corner chop it down a couple of gears and power out. Blip the throttle to get engine revs up with tyre speed and all should be fine. No need for a slipper at all.

[Ivan]

Yeah I know I am used to 125 GP were you ride them to keep it in the power range nah thanks for your help I forgot all about throttle blipping it is something new I have learnt to do laters

[John]

Yeah I know I am used to 125 GP were you ride them to keep it in the power range nah thanks for your help I forgot all about throttle blipping it is something new I have learnt to do laters

cant handle the heat get out of the oven? ...

[k14]

ARE YOU DRUNK???

RIding the clutch is not a good thing, it is something to be avoided. As Ixion said on a 2 smoke 125 if you want more revs/torque out of a corner chop it down a couple of gears and power out. Blip the throttle to get engine revs up with tyre speed and all should be fine. No need for a slipper at all.

Calm down mate, obviously you know 2/3rds of fuck all about RS125's. You need to ride the clutches very often. They don't have any torque at all and power only comes in at 8000rpm. First gear is very tall, you need to be doing 70kph before you are in the powerband or else it just bogs. Thats why you need to slip the clutch. At a circuit like ruapuna most guys are doing it atleast 2 times a lap and then there's the start. You are doing it till you are changing into 2nd gear (about 100kph) before you let it out fully.

This art is very hard to master and obviously ivan hasn't yet. He needs to get it into his head that there isn't a device that will do this and the only way it can get done is manually, i.e. with your hand.

[k14]

Yeah I know I am used to 125 GP were you ride them to keep it in the power range nah thanks for your help I forgot all about throttle blipping it is something new I have learnt to do laters

you don't need to blip the throttle on a 2 stroke. just change down and let the clutch out, need to be careful not to let the clutch out too soon and over rev the bike but you don't need to blip the throttle on a 2 stroke. only need to do it on a 4 stroke when there isn't a slipper clutch (there you go ivan, the proper use of a slipper clutch).

[gav]

Ivan, i think traction control is what youre after, I'm sure this will help. Will help your launch's and control wheel spin out of tight bends.

[Ixion]

Now I'm totally confused. Mr Gav, are you saying that a slipper clutch will control wheel spin (I'm surprised that a 125 can wheelspin in the dry, but anyway).

I thought a "slipper clutch" was such that it allowed a controlled degree of slip ON THE OVERRUN - ie slip when the wheel's driving the motor.

How could that help with wheel spin, when clearly the motor is driving the wheel.

Two smokers do sometimes need the clutch feathered a bit, even on the road, depending on gearing. And of course you have to slip them if you want a fast take off, otherwise they either bog down in the nasty urff urff way that you can't get out of without stopping - or they try to throw you off the back when the powerband kicks in. But I don't understand what any of this has to do with slipper clutchs. Unless I've completely misunderstood what they are, which is quite possible.

[k14]

No you understand them perfectly, its one other person (who remain nameless) *cough* ivan *cough* that doesn't know what they are for or how they work.

[TLDV8]

I thought a "slipper clutch" was such that it allowed a controlled degree of slip ON THE OVERRUN - ie slip when the wheel's driving the motor.

How could that help with wheel spin, when clearly the motor is driving the wheel.

It is as you say... http://www.sigmaperformance.com/slipperclutches.html.. most are like the Ducati units with ramps under the centre hub that lift it on the over run...the trick units have adjustable spiders to set the slippage... Then there is the retarded system on the TL1000's which is more of a back torque limiter where on acceleration the the clutch springs are loaded,deceleration does the oposite so there is some slippage..with the added bonus if you back off in a corner then gas it up the engine can gain revs until the ramp system catchs up risking highsiding (like dipping the clutch midcorner with the throttle pinned)...perhaps Ivan is thinking of a centrifugal clutch like we all had on out Trutest mini bikes ..i have always blipped the throttle on downshifts from RM125's to Kawasaki H2's,works for me,just a personal preferance.

[gav]

Now I'm totally confused. Mr Gav, are you saying that a slipper clutch will control wheel spin (I'm surprised that a 125 can wheelspin in the dry, but anyway).

I thought a "slipper clutch" was such that it allowed a controlled degree of slip ON THE OVERRUN - ie slip when the wheel's driving the motor.

How could that help with wheel spin, when clearly the motor is driving the wheel.

Two smokers do sometimes need the clutch feathered a bit, even on the road, depending on gearing. And of course you have to slip them if you want a fast take off, otherwise they either bog down in the nasty urff urff way that you can't get out of without stopping - or they try to throw you off the back when the powerband kicks in. But I don't understand what any of this has to do with slipper clutchs. Unless I've completely misunderstood what they are, which is quite possible.

NO, sorry, I'm saying for what Ivan wants to acheive he would need some sort of traction control. A slipper clutch as explained has nothing to do with his problems, ie starts and exiting corners.

[Ivan]

you don't need to blip the throttle on a 2 stroke. just change down and let the clutch out, need to be careful not to let the clutch out too soon and over rev the bike but you don't need to blip the throttle on a 2 stroke. only need to do it on a 4 stroke when there isn't a slipper clutch (there you go ivan, the proper use of a slipper clutch).

Yeah thanks K14 alot of people dont understand that 125's are not just any bike you ride the clutch all the time nah I know it is in your left hand thanks

[Ivan]

Nah I know I have got you guys all mucked up Its hard to explain I want to set my clutch us so it is easier to feather

[Ixion]

As a slightly off topic aside, I have always wondered abut the possibility of having a VERY highly tuned two stroke engine, with an impossibly narrow power band (say 1000rpm) . That could generate some unreal sort of horsepower. Then use an infinately variable auto transmission to control speed (ie instead of changing engine revs, change the gearing). It would need some way to bleed off power - like a "forward" slipper clutch to avoid excess power at the wrong place.

I suspect if someone really tried it could work very well. We'll never know because the wimpy racing rulers put the whammy on big two strokes - cos they know that if they allowed two strokes to compete on equal terms with four strokes, the fourstrokes would not stand a chance . Two strokes rule, OK

[TLDV8]

As a slightly off topic aside, I have always wondered abut the possibility of having a VERY highly tuned two stroke engine, with an impossibly narrow power band (say 1000rpm) . That could generate some unreal sort of horsepower. Then use an infinately variable auto transmission to control speed (ie instead of changing engine revs, change the gearing). It would need some way to bleed off power - like a "forward" slipper clutch to avoid excess power at the wrong place.

I suspect if someone really tried it could work very well. We'll never know because the wimpy racing rulers put the whammy on big two strokes - cos they know that if they allowed two strokes to compete on equal terms with four strokes, the fourstrokes would not stand a chance . Two strokes rule, OK

It was done in the 1970's with a 500cc 3 cylinder snow mobile engine and some kind of torque converter...the rev's would stay the same,its undoing was mainly tires and the TZ750...i could try and find the article.