Practical adventure bikes

[rogson]

The announcement of BMW's HP-2 prompts my two cents worth on what constitutes a practical adventure bike.

Looking at the picture of the HP-2 the first thing I notice is the exhaust pipes are routed around the outside bottom corner of the engine. Have they been put there as rock and stump deflectors? - because thats what they'll be doing if the bike is taken off-road. On the same issue the new Yamaha dual purpose bike (XT660 I think?) is even dumber - from the picture I've seen the pipe is routed under the engine!

Also the width of the engine and its low mounting on the HP-2 means it can't help but come into contact with terraferma when the bike falls over - and believe me if you go off-road it is going to fall over at some stage.

I have a Suzuki Freewind that has been punted 2-up on many adventure rides in both North and South Island. To make it work dirt/off road I have stiffened-up the suspension both ends, changed to a smaller front sprocket and made-up a raised front mudguard arrangement so I can change the standard 19" front wheel to a 21" (the DR650 front wheel has the same hub and slots straight-on). I use 80/20 dirt/road tyres for trips involving significant dirt/off road riding and road tyres (and the 19" front wheel) for highway and in town. Its agility, above average ground clearance and good bottom-end torque make it a good kerb jumper/commuter.

The total cost of the bike (bought new in 98) and mods has been about $9500.00 - thousands less than price of the more glamorous european competition. It has been absolutely bullet-proof reliable and when it falls over (which it seems to enjoy doing now and again) it doesn't wipe-out any expensive bits. To my mind its a practical adventure bike.

[Paul in NZ]

Hmm.. I like your thinking.. Got any pictures of the beast?

Cheers

[Motu]

As you can see in the HP2 thread the bike is being put to some serious use,real world testing before it is released to the public,like KTM did with the 950.I'm sure if the exhaust is munted everytime it goes out then that would be put in order....these guys are racing the thing,they want to win,not sit on the sidelines because of some obvious fault.Look for high pipes on the production HP2? Big fat cans on the side are what the public wants it seems.

Suxuki's of the early 70s had the fat 2 stroke chamber under the bike,I rode them off road and don't recall moaning about the exhaust or mangling one up.My TS400 had the same set up and the only problem was when it fell of in a race,launched the bike into the air and then nearly took my head off as it spun like a boomerang.These day's we would sue Suzuki....

But you are right,it just seems a silly thing to do on the XT660 - maybe they realised that they don't really go off road anyway....for the use intended it would do the job I'd say.

[ManDownUnder]

Hey chap -as has been said - good approach to measuring up how useful a bike will be (or whould thjat be how long till it get's bits broken off...)

Pics would be good, and welcome!
MDU

[merv]

Practical adventure bike is a problem I have grappled with since I decided it was time to move on from trusty XR Hondas. Initially I thought a BMW F650 might be OK when they came out in 1994, but me I am a short arse and after seeing the bigger bikes in action on the early adventure rides around 1992/1994 decided no I wouldn't buy one. Why? Too heavy when similar to a mid to large road bike in weight. How would I pick one up or pull it out of a bog at the bottom of a steep hill?

So in 94 I decided I would buy the VFR for the road and stick to a proper dirt bike for dirt and adventure rides. In 98 I succumbed to old age and thought it was time for electric start so I bought a DR250R because there were no electric XRs, until now. Problem was the DR never lived up to my expectations after the Hondas. The chassis was great (except on thick gravel) and it wasn't too heavy, but it was a typical Suzuki as in made like a parts bin special and the engine wasn't good for its purpose. It was too buzzy - like lacking in flywheel and jerky on and off throttle including too much driveline snatch making it a bitch to ride on slippery mud or gravel roads. The chassis problem on gravel roads was I think it was a bit front heavy so it speed wobbled quite badly under power on straight thick gravel roads, not something the Hondas ever did.

I guess I could have chased mods on the Suzuki but in the end after looking around I bought the WR250F last year. (Blue Wing refused to bring the electric start XR250L into NZ from 96 but have finally done so now.) WR is light and bloody fast and as straight as die on gravel roads. I got it just before the Pukemanu ride last year and at the end of that ride I had enjoyed it that much I felt like going around again. The issue with the WR though is how long will the engine last doing adventure rides? Its a racing engine not a long lifer like an XR or DR.

We bought my wife a DR650 but she won't be doing hard out dirt stuff on it but that isn't a bad adventure bike on rides like the Pukemanu.

So to me a practical adventure bike is one you can ride without effort and without breaking it - for me that is really a trail bike as I like to do some of the more rugged stuff too.

[Paul in NZ]

Merv

What would you recommend as a cheap 2 up gravel road bike capable of touring (luggage?)....

Cheers

[merv]

Merv

What would you recommend as a cheap 2 up gravel road bike capable of touring (luggage?)....

Cheers

Cheapest probably is the DR650 which is why I bought my wife one from Trash late last year. We've fitted a Ventura rack to it but two up that means one bag only so you might want to look at pannier style bags for two up. Power is OK they will top out around 160km/hr. Stock gearing is too high and even one tooth down on the front it is very high geared for a dirt bike but OK on gravel roads. The nice thing about the DR is the adjustable rear suspension (pull out the bolt and move it on the shock) which lowers the seat height to 840mm. Just fit the shorter sidestand as well.

[Motu]

Yeah,the DR650 is the most serious of the not serious dual purpose bikes,compared to the XT and KLR at least.If you are not doing anything more than gravel check out a Transalp,built from the early 80s to the present day it's a well proven design.Prices are a bit premium,but ride one and you'll fall in love,they are a really nice bike to ride and ideal for your purpose.

[rogson]

Merv, Paul and others

Looks like I've started something here.

Regarding a picture, the bike currently has the 19" wheel on, but I suspect you want a picture of it with the 21" wheel. I will see if I have one, otherwise you will have to wait until the next time I change it over.

Regarding using a proper dirt-bike in the dirt, I absolutely agree - use a serious dirt-bike when solo (I do myself). But my adventure riding has been two-up and has included extended highway sessions. The fact is serious dirt-bikes can't accomodate two people and are at best only tolerable on the road. I find even the softer versions (like the DR650) are cramped and uncomfortable two-up for anything but short spells.

Regarding the suitability of the HP-2 and XT660 for the dirt - of course they will do the job - but their design puts certain components at higher risk than other designs, and from my experience it eventually gets found-out.

[Paul in NZ]

Dang

Should have bought that Moto Guzzi Quota when I had the chance eh!

Cheers

[merv]

Yeah in the end the whole thing gets down to exactly what do you want to do with the bike? Its personal preference and I prefer a hard out dirt bike, but no way could I two-up on the WR. The DR650 we have ridden two-up quite a bit and while comfort is better than on a smaller trail bike it certainly wouldn't be like a big BMW or something like that. My wife is taller than me and on the back she finds her knees bent a bit hard because the pegs are reasonably high. She has far more space on the back of the VFR road bike. Our preference though is not to have anything heavier than the DR650 which is 147kg dry because at some stage you always end up picking dirt bikes up off the ground. Others obviously prefer the heavier bikes and I guess hope like hell they don't drop them. Having been on many adventure rides one of my roles has been helping many a person with a heavy bike pick the damn thing up after they come to grief. Those people don't enjoy the rides so much. Bikes like Transalps and F650s (which weigh closer to 200kg these days) are definitely great bikes for fast open gravel roads and the tarseal in between.

So again what is a practical adventure bike? Easy - the one that you think suits what you want to do with it not what I would want to do with it.

[rogson]

Dang

Should have bought that Moto Guzzi Quota when I had the chance eh!

Cheers

I don't know what a Quota is but if its got the big Guzzi V-twin in it I suspect it will be great on the highway but too heavy and cubersome for all but well graded dirt roads. If most of your riding is on the highway and you don't mind detouring some of the rougher terrain when you go off the seal then the big trailies (the ones with the 1000cc engines) are fine.

However, if you want to get into some rougher country - like four wheel drive tracks with ruts, drainage ditches, rocky streams, tree-fell, etc you will find the big trailies cumbersome, tiring and most importantly no fun! For these conditions you need light weight (ideally less than 170kg), quick steering, high ground clearance (no worse than the Freewind - which has had its share of being high-centred and trapped in deep ruts), narrow front to back profile, good low-end torque, and suspension with some decent travel and proper set-up.

I am basically happy with the Freewind but if I was shopping I would look for something with a bit more power for the highway. The Freewind at 45 or so HP is not really adequate 2-up on the highway.

Perhaps the Transalp (as has been suggested) provided its got the required power, or the DL650 (with a 21" front wheel - absolutely essential), or (swoon-swoon) the KTM950!

Remember, any bike for this type of service should be looked at critically for how vunerable things are to getting smashed - like the exhaust pipe routing, etc, I mentioned before, and even details like; are the indicators rubber mounted? (yes on the Freewind).

[Ixion]

A lot of the big "adventure" bikes are based around the American desert riding concept, with lots of wide open space and very few obstacles. They don't work so well in our terrain which is often narrow and cluttered with trees, rocks, ogres etc.

In the desert you aren't likely to get stuck . But if you're trying to haul the bike up a stream bank (ie it's hanging off a rope over a tree branch at the top of the vertical bank) , the weight and size of a 650 or bigger becomes VERY noticeable

[XTC]

Practical adventure bike....

[Motu]

I'm a shortarse too and have exactly the same criteria as Merv - my XT is the Gravel Road Express and does my road work and long rides,I have a trials bike for really getting into serious ''you shouldn't go there'' stuff,well,just twinshock trials really.And finally made the choice on a DT230 as my small offroader and adventure bike.The XT is capable of easy adventure rides - in the dry,but it always seems to rain and I don't want to push a big bike around in the mud....so I need small bikes for real off road stuff.

Dual Purpose is the most difficult bike to buy,nothing is exactly right for all uses....and then we get into tyres,another minefield - I have 2 sets of wheels for the DT230,so I don't have to change tyres every time I ride it - um,this is all a dream you know,I've only ridden the DT a couple of times,so don't know much about what it will do yet....