Which First Bike

[Ixion]

I agree also. I think a first bike has to be regarded as a training exercise, to be upgraded after a few months.

The other thing about a newbie bike is that it should NOT handle too well ! Sounds odd, but a bike that handles well can encourage over confidence. Back in the day, a learners bike started to FEEL dodgy long before the point at which it really got into trouble. So the learner was more circumspect about cornering. A crotchrocket that tips real easy into the corner is not a good thing for someone who is just starting out.

And, like Mr Motu I also agree that a beginners bike needs to be a forgiving all rounder.

The problem is , as always, one of old heads and young shoulders. Beginners don't want safe sensible bikes they want FASSSSTTTTTTT bikes.
EDIT: Best learner's bike ever made - the BSA Bantam.

[skelstar]

Im pretty glad Im riding my bike at 33 not 18.
Funny...in a recent post I mentioned that my Hyosung has dodgy handling . I also kinda mention it as an asset.

[stevedee]

I am of the opinion that learning to ride on the road for many will result in problems. I do not know why beginners are instructed to ride on tarmac with road bikes. ( I mean I know that it is the easiest option but is it the best?). Tarmac is the most unforgiving surface and when first learning how to use the throttle, clutch, and brakes, it spells disaster in a panic situation. I was lucky enough to only ride dirt for the first 6 months or so, 30 years ago. I don't know why rider instruction does not take place on the dirt with hired dirt bikes for a few weekends of tuition. Then I think new riders would be ready for the road. I believe the first time you loose the bike for whatever reason should not be on a public road filled full of car/SUV drivers. Maybe the professional Riding Tutors should be pushing this not me? Even a skilled person will loose the front or the back end in the beginning, or worse not be able to hold a line and panic and straighten up. On the road you might hit a car, on the dirt you might fall off or hit a tree. On the dirt you will be going slower and have the luxury of reflecting on what went wrong.

I don't think that a learner’s bike is that important, obviously a large capacity bike is daft. I think that how you learn and where you learn is important.

Sorry I know many KB members don't or have never ridden dirt, and I am sure you could outride/outskill me any day, but that is my opinion. I do not want to offend anyone.

spd:-)

[T.I.E]

I am of the opinion that learning to ride on the road for many will result in problems. I do not know why beginners are instructed how to ride on tarmac with road bikes.......

nope i agree, i also grew up playing on farm bikes from ag100's to xr 250's and IT 250's even xt500's dam kick start.
but how do we give them the opportunity to give them a blast out in a paddock on a shitty farm bike.
farm tiggy used to be fun. out on grass is a great way to learn. but the closet paddock i can offer is kaiwaka. and no bikes.
but good idea.

[Mr. Peanut]

A 125 4-stroke scooter would be a good start.

Very easy to ride, lets you concentrate on traffic and road conditions.
Gets you used to the handling dynamics of a motorcycle, easy to maintain.
Top speed - 90km/h, fast enough for learners
Cheap to buy, easy to sell. Just about everyone is interested in buying a scooter, a non intimidating introduction to motorcycles.

What do you think?

[merv]

37 years ago I started riding on a Zundapp moped, then moved up to a mighty A100 Suzuki. My love ended up being trail riding so after just about wrecking the A100 by trail riding it (bent rims, footpeg mounts etc - it just wasn't tough enough to take the jumps) I moved onto real trail bikes starting with an XL175 (I've posted a few pics of that on here back in the 70's) and while that was a fast bike for its day it succumbed to my riding speed as well. The steel rims dented too easily, the forks were too spindly and the wheel base stretched with time from jumping requiring the forks to be straightened every now and then. Eventually it shattered the rear hub around the cush drive rubbers, but the engine itself was strong.

Then along came the XR Hondas and I rode them for 15 years and for me they were tops in the 80's and 90's - light, fast and unbreakable. No matter how many times I dropped an XR I never broke even a clutch or brake lever and the only time I ever took a motor apart at all was to take one side cover off to replace clutch plates. They have alloy rims, reasonably strong forks and can take the jumps and not much sticks out so there is nothing to break. Compared to the older XL's they were tough.

What's the story I'm trying to tell. Well for 25 years I rode nothing but dirt bikes and I rode them everywhere and learnt to ride well (I think). In 1994 I bought the VFR and all the years of dirt bikes had taught me a lot and I can ride that quite fast it seems. One thing I notice being the difference between myself and others that haven't been dirt bikers is that I don't mind if the bike moves around underneath me. To a dirt biker it is natural, but to those without that experience I see a few panic when they do no more than hit a small bit of loose stuff on the road. Dirt bikers seem to be used to coping with the unexpected. So personally I'd always say get a small bike first, especially a trail bike, and learn to ride it well. Throw it around and learn to change direction fast, cope with unexpected slippery surfaces and ride so that you are in control of the bike and not the other way around.

These days we all want electric start, and for years no matter how much I prompted them Blue Wing Honda would not bring the electric start XR250L's here so I bought a DR250R (never liked it much after the Hondas) and then got the WR Yamaha. The WR is great, but its not the sort of bike you can ride for ever and ever on the road as well without worrying about wearing out what is basically a race engine. Well finally the XR250L's are available so I went and bought one and collected it from Motomart on Thursday to add to the stable. I'll let you know as time progresses how it goes. Those shorter than me (and I am a short arse) will find it a bit tall at 875mm seat height (but that is low for a trail bike these days). So even though I'm getting to veteran rider status I'm looking forward to having this bike to do a bit of general back country riding and would recommend the dual purpose type bike to any beginner as long as you are tall enough or else you'll have to invest in ways of shortening the bike like I did with my WR (put a shorter Ohlins shock on it). New the XR is about $9,000 (a bit steep) but there are many earlier imports available for less and other trail bikes such as XT Yams that would be good starter bikes.

So that's what I'd recommend, a trail bike (on the road a GN250 would fit into this category too), as they are light and easy to flick in different directions when you need to and you can try gravel roads and so they are good for learning including how to ride when the surface is loose. Once you've mastered the art and have learnt to ride fast and smooth, then move on to something heavier and more powerful.

[Motu]

Looks like us old dirt riders have the monopoly on what we think someone starting out should do.I learnt sooooo much mucking around on dirt for a couple of years,that when I hooked up with some guys to ride road bikes with they mistakenly thought I was a good rider.You learn so much more about machine control....and when ultimatly when you crash,you know how to crash.All the safety gear Nazi's will go on about how you have to have all the gear to survive a road crash - but I've crashed on and off road with minimal gear dozens of times.You need to learn everything,and you can't do that with a narrow focused sportsbike only riding on perfectly manicured roads.

[merv]

Good on you Motu. The other thing me and you have in common is trials (besides being short arses), though I only did it for a few years in the 70's. I never had the money to buy a proper trials bike being a student at the time so used trail bikes for it, the most successful being a TS185 which had an amazingly torquey engine, the XL175 wasn't so good it had such a short stroke engine with little bottom end grunt. My Bro' bought a Sherpa T350 when they were the bees knees and I loved riding that - just couldn't afford one of my own back when they were a whopping $1,325.

Yeah so I was of that vintage when you rode your bikes everywhere and competed on them when specialist bikes weren't so common, and I still like being able to get up and leave home and ride gravel and trails and not necessarily need to trailer the bike everywhere so I have never owned a dirt bike that isn't street legal.

[Patch]

Yip everyone has an opinion, and here is mine for what its worth.

I agree, a farm is the best place to learn. You find yourself in all sorts of situations out there and you learn very quickly balance and how to handle your machine, doesn't matter how many mistakes you make so long as you learn from them.

I don't think it really matters too much what sort of bike you learn on, it boils down to your ability to learn and the ability of your teacher to help you learn at your pace, on a bike that you feel comfortable with.

Speed kills - BS, its the persons inability to drive according to conditions, for whatever reason.

If they are a hothead, then they will crash, won't matter too much what they are riding. I use to be one, didn't matter what I rode - still fell off.

Stupidity knows not age nor race. Experience is everything.

I was taught, buy your safety gear then your bike. You will always find me in my leathers - always. At the end of the day, you make your decision for you, seek advice from those that you trust and have fun learning.

Here endth my two cents.

[Ixion]

I am of the opinion that learning to ride on the road for many will result in problems. .. I was lucky enough to only ride dirt for the first 6 months or so, 30 years ago. I don't know why rider instruction does not take place on the dirt with hired dirt bikes for a few weekends of tuition. ..

I also, like almost all riders of my generation, spent a lot of time riding rough - on gravel roads, trails, beaches, wasteland, subdivisions, you name it, anywhere an SL125 or TS250 could go. And I certainly think I learned an enormous amount from that. But, in reality, in Auckland anyway, this isn't practical any more. There is nowhere where a beginner and go and just muck around, finding how a bike works, falling off, getting into difficulties and out of them.

So the real question is what ROAD bike for a beginner.

[iwilde]

Personaly I think what I have is a great bike for starting out on, easy to ride and with the upright riding position and only 30hp I dont get the urge to ride like Mr Slight! At the end of the day it's all up to what the rider wants and what image they want. You guys may think I'm crazy but I'm looking at anything from a Aprillia, KTM to a Busa for my third bike (had a CBX750 in the early 90's with no licience!). But I do know my limitations and riding ability which I feel is more important than the bike in surviving on our roads.

[Motu]

And how did Aaron Slight start out? Off road of course.All the top racers,like Rossi for example,train by riding dirt bikes,it's harder on their body and teaches them more about bike control.

[T.I.E]

so best bike to start from, farm bike or trail (small) eg 125 is good, and where? in a paddock for starters. or dirt.

forget the road, and road bikes.

go out to the country and start there.

[erik]

I agree also. I think a first bike has to be regarded as a training exercise, to be upgraded after a few months.

Wouldn't that make it more expensive, not to mention all the extra hassle of buying, selling and then finding a new bike?
250 inline fours take a bit of getting used to, but provided the rider is careful I think they make fine first bikes. I've had my zeal for almost 2 years now, it has served me well.

The other thing about a newbie bike is that it should NOT handle too well ! Sounds odd, but a bike that handles well can encourage over confidence. Back in the day, a learners bike started to FEEL dodgy long before the point at which it really got into trouble. So the learner was more circumspect about cornering. A crotchrocket that tips real easy into the corner is not a good thing for someone who is just starting out.

I know what you're saying and agree that a bike that feels like it's going too fast before it actually is, is probably a good thing.
But I think that it is important for the bike to handle well in corners. A bike that feels fine in a straight line but tends to stand up strongly and go wide when the front brake is touched in a corner, is not a good bike for a newbie.
I know you're not really supposed to touch the front brake in a corner, but it almost inevitably does happen.

[Motig]

Well unfortunately a lot of you don't seem to have noticed that the vast majority of Kiwis now live in an urban enviroment and puttering around on a farm is not possible. And wasn't the question to do with the size of bike for a learner
My 2 cents worth is that no more than 250cc and light weight.And by up to 250cc I don't mean a race replica with a powerband of a zillion revs but something like the GN ,FXR 150,Hyosung,SRV etc. In fact I've always thought car drivers should have to spend 6 months on a scooter before they get a license so they learn fear and respect for other road users