Harley Davidson

[georgedubyabush]

An example of HD image:

I was in Vanuatu a while back and most of the little markets had bootleg HD vests, jackets etc. There's probably not one HD on Vanuatu. Only saw one ratty ct200, and a few hire scooters.

[Holy Roller]

An example of HD image:

I was in Vanuatu a while back and most of the little markets had bootleg HD vests, jackets etc. There's probably not one HD on Vanuatu. Only saw one ratty ct200, and a few hire scooters.

The same in the markets of Hong Kong I got my belt buckle there HD of course.
One had to carefully check the wording as they were also pushing cheap copies with Barley Davidson inscripted on the gear.

[wkid_one]

Too big and heavy. If you ever have a decent look at a V-rod you'll notice that the motor is huge! Massively over engineered.

The XB Buells have the shortest wheelbase of any production sports motorcycle. Shorter even than an Aprillia RS125! Makes 'em turn real good!

Yeah and fuel in the frame and oil in the swing arm

[SPman]

While we're all on the HD band waggon. Who here has had the pleasure of riding a Buell?

Took an XB9R for a run when they were first released. After getting used to revs that were all over by 6k and ignoring the clunky gearbox by leaving it in top and riding on the torque, it was fun. Didnt want to take it back....wanted to head of to the Coromandel for a few hours fun! The 1200 should be quicker though - the 9 was a bit sluggish. Good handling, ground clearance and rode well over corrugated surfaces - the set up must have suited me.

[scumdog]

A quick comment about Jim2's opening to the thread, - you could put his argument to almost anything but it's all up to taste and budget, after all, I couldn't see why anyone would want to pay $2,000,000 for a stainless steel and glass mansion, after all it can't be any more comfortable than my $75,000 rough-cast and besides costs more for rates and is harder to heat, and getting to my place in the rush hour means waiting at least 30 seconds before you can pull out of the side road into the traffic why for that price you could have my house, a large boat, a bevvy of H-D's and STILL have money in the bank!!

[merv]

Yep its all about you blow your money on what you want and stuff what anyone else thinks as long as you are having fun. If you have the money, spend it, no use leaving it all to the kids.

[merv]

... and the guy who spend 2 mil on a house probably has a few more mil to buy Harleys and other stuff with anyway. No use just leaving the money in the bank.

[DeanOh]

Took an XB9R for a run when they were first released. After getting used to revs that were all over by 6k and ignoring the clunky gearbox by leaving it in top and riding on the torque, it was fun. Didnt want to take it back....wanted to head of to the Coromandel for a few hours fun! The 1200 should be quicker though - the 9 was a bit sluggish. Good handling, ground clearance and rode well over corrugated surfaces - the set up must have suited me.

I took the XB12S for a spin. Heaps of torgue. I didnt like the riding style. felt like I was sitting on the front bars, very upright. It felt like a MX bike. But the power, the fun factor, won me over. If her indoors could be persuaded I would buy the XB12R. The riding position is alot more comfortable on the 12R, alot more like a sports bike, leaning forward etc. The clunky 5 speed gearbox took some getting used to. The XB12S that I rode had the factory exhaust. It kinda sounded like a VW, an after market exhaust would be the first change if I got one.

About the Harley thing.
When I was a young man, all I wanted was a Harley, the cost was always inhibitive then, but for me it was about the look, tattoos, long hair, Harley!!!
If I didnt live in such a dodgy neighbourhood now I would give thought to buying one. But Im sure the natives would end up riding off with it.

[DEATH_INC.]

I've only ridden 1 hog and it put me off ever riding another......though I'd love to try a buell,they look like heaps of fun....
A better example is my boss(rich, 40 something),owned heaps of hardleys,Till he rode a vulcan,reckons he'll never own another hog.Why because of excatly what Jim's saying......
FLHS=fat,long heavy and slow......

[James Deuce]

Thanks again for the replies folks. Good point Scumdog - it was a bit of a "generic" argument. That's the problem when discussing substance vs style I guess.

[Timber020]

Like the fashion industry the Harley industry bothers me. As far as a products go they are not very good but as for a brand they are incredibly successful. There production is held back to create artificial demand and therefore value, They rely on outside sources for all of the more complex parts of there bikes and they are very careful about what they do with there brand.
Harley had some serious objections to Eric Buell using there engines to make sports bikes as they recognised it could man embarrasment to them as they were not up to competing with the japanese, Something harley long ago gave up trying to do by trying to compete outside of what the japanese were making. At the time the 1340cc harley motor was putting out 65hp, only 10hp more than alot of the japanese 250's at the time.
Buells started to sell and Harley took notice, harley took a 49% stake in the company in exchange for selling motors to the former ama racer. (up until then eric had to source second hand motors mostly) Then harley got an additional 49% bringing it to 98%.
Harley have been able to rely on there name and the midlife crisis to keep alive and thrive in the last 20 years. If it wasnt for the over 40's market Harley would have sunk long ago.
If you started a company tomorrow that made bikes that performed and were priced like harleys with 50% asian components do you think it would sell?

[scumdog]

Timber020, you say "as far as products go they are not very good", in what way are noy very good?
Sure if it's H.P. they are well down to what they could be but then if it's H.P. you want it would be a Hyabusa you would aim for.
As far as bikes go it's "horses for courses" and I am quite happy with my slow 1200-S Sporty, I suppose it's like having an Anglia instead of a Ferrari, the extra performance would be wasted on you if you didn't want it/use it.
In some ways the Jap copies of Harleys are pathetic - like they are water-cooled but have bolt on fins to make themLOOK air-cooled and like a Harley but if that's what you want/can afford good on you.
As a foot note, when I was in Las Vegas two years ago I was talking to a cop on a H-D and asked him why they had gone back from Kawasakis to H-D's and he said that what the department lost in the initial purchase price they more than made up for in the higher trade-in value and there was no difference in reliability and the maintenance was easier.

[White trash]

Exactly. H-D's are cool! Full stop and one day I'll own one.

[geneandjane]

I think that you, Jim2, should maybe " close mouth " before your other foot finds it's way there. Your comment on HD prices is way out for a start - show me someone who has paid $30,000 for a Sporty. I have ridden evrything from a nifty fifty, dirtbikes, HD'S, and the new V-Rod, and enjoy the thrill of the ride and each bikes individual handling etc. I have settled on a HD which have ridden all over the South Island and in Oz down the East coast to Sydney - never fallen off and always found the brakes ( that you say the HD's don't seem to have ). You sound extemely ill-educated on bikes and need to study on each subject carefully before going public ! Oh , by the way - you have'nt heard me run the Jap bikes into the ground in this Forum have you - tact goes a long way !
Jane ( not too scared to use my own name !)

The HP sauce discussion has prompted me to ask what you folks think of HD.

After growing up watching my Dad struggle to keep an "old tech" car on the road for family transport, it amazes me to see how much an air cooled, pushrod V-Twin can command as a new purchase price. I've tried a Fat-Boy, and an 883 sportster, and both of them left me feeling more than a little disappointed.

The Sportster owner had a list of niggles that kept him going back and forth to Wellington M/Cs, and the Fat Boy owner (old school friend of mine in Auckland) eventually sold it and bought a 2nd hand GSXR750 and a HOUSE!

I've never understood why anyone would want to ride a bike with such low handling limits on a road that is filled with hazards. I had the Fatboy's boards down at what felt like 15 degrees of lean, and the sportster just felt like a very underpowered tractor, that blurred your vision at 100km/h and had a tank range of about 160kms. Neither of them had what I would call brakes, and the riding position had my lower back screaming in agony after about 30 mins. OK, OK! I hear what you say; why bitch about something that obviously isn't your style of 'bike??

The VROD looks fantastic and has an engine that at least matches what we expect from the current crop of Japanese and European V-Twins. It also appears to have brakes and reasonable suspension.

My point is that I just don't see $20-$30k of bike when I look at a Sportster, $30-$60k when I look at an FLSWHATTHEF__K (thanks Matthew ), and $40-$50k for the V-ROD. For the various sums I could buy 2-5 bikes that would all out perform any HD. IS the brand name and image REALLY worth that much???? Do the people that buy them try anything else before they buy an HD? Does anyone know anyone who is looking at getting back into bikes and is lusting over an HD, Can you save them??? Should you try????

This isn't a troll or an anti-HD post, just my opinion, and I am genuinely mystified as to what makes a person buy an ill-handling, under suspended, under braked, under powered, heavy bike in preference to the vast range of competent quality items out there. Surely it can't just be, "If I buy an HD chicks/guys will dig it"????????

Looking forward to some healthy debate and, no doubt, creative insults

Jim2

[White trash]

Jane, Jane, Jane. Welcome to KB!

Jim2 and I have discussed this issue at great lengths and I believe him to be one of the most open minded bikers on this site.

What I think he wanted was some explanation as to why people such as yourself, Scumdog and me are drawn to HDs.He just didn't get it and that's cool. I have the same oppinion on Ducatis. I just don't see the attraction.

Jims original post was quite tounge in cheek and he had been misled on the price issue. He even had the decency to take me up on an offer to ride one of my Buells. Quite enjoyed it too.

Anyway, let's let sleeping dogs lie shall we?