Harley Davidson

[James Deuce]

The HP sauce discussion has prompted me to ask what you folks think of HD.

After growing up watching my Dad struggle to keep an "old tech" car on the road for family transport, it amazes me to see how much an air cooled, pushrod V-Twin can command as a new purchase price. I've tried a Fat-Boy, and an 883 sportster, and both of them left me feeling more than a little disappointed.

The Sportster owner had a list of niggles that kept him going back and forth to Wellington M/Cs, and the Fat Boy owner (old school friend of mine in Auckland) eventually sold it and bought a 2nd hand GSXR750 and a HOUSE!

I've never understood why anyone would want to ride a bike with such low handling limits on a road that is filled with hazards. I had the Fatboy's boards down at what felt like 15 degrees of lean, and the sportster just felt like a very underpowered tractor, that blurred your vision at 100km/h and had a tank range of about 160kms. Neither of them had what I would call brakes, and the riding position had my lower back screaming in agony after about 30 mins. OK, OK! I hear what you say; why bitch about something that obviously isn't your style of 'bike??

The VROD looks fantastic and has an engine that at least matches what we expect from the current crop of Japanese and European V-Twins. It also appears to have brakes and reasonable suspension.

My point is that I just don't see $20-$30k of bike when I look at a Sportster, $30-$60k when I look at an FLSWHATTHEF__K (thanks Matthew ), and $40-$50k for the V-ROD. For the various sums I could buy 2-5 bikes that would all out perform any HD. IS the brand name and image REALLY worth that much???? Do the people that buy them try anything else before they buy an HD? Does anyone know anyone who is looking at getting back into bikes and is lusting over an HD, Can you save them??? Should you try????

This isn't a troll or an anti-HD post, just my opinion, and I am genuinely mystified as to what makes a person buy an ill-handling, under suspended, under braked, under powered, heavy bike in preference to the vast range of competent quality items out there. Surely it can't just be, "If I buy an HD chicks/guys will dig it"????????

Looking forward to some healthy debate and, no doubt, creative insults

Jim2

[Lou Girardin]

I think it's a combination of image and nostalgia. Most Harleys are non-threatening too, low seats and soft power output.
Lou

[White trash]

All good ponits.

But, its $15-$20K for the new Sporty. (Triumph Bonnevilole America $17k, Speedmaster $18) $27-$40 for the "Big blocks". An "Electraglide Ultra Classic" is $41. Stereo, CB radio, luggage for Affrica, lights fucken every where. Priced a "Leadwing" lately? Suggest you do. V-Rod is $36-38 depending on the model.

People buy HD's for the image, the nostalgia, the social scene and the pride of ownership. On the HOG poker run on Sunady there were almost 300 bikes. After 300kms of touring there was only one disagreement over riding styles (directed at me funnily enough)

Prices are dictated by supply and demand. HD have a policy which has stood since they re-took ownership from AMF in the early eighties. 70% of bikes built are for the domestic (USA) market. The remaining 30% are for international market. There is a TWO YEAR waiting list in the States for a touring model and this is the most expensive place on earth to buy one. NZ, comparitively is the cheapest. We also have one of the highest HD ownership per capita ratios in the world. (Second only to the Chattam Islands!)

People dog HD for their prices but do you honestly think it costs $7K more to build a 999 than a GSX-R thou?

As for the old tech build of a Harley, why change it if it aint broke? They sell as many as they can make and part of the attraction is the low tech style.

Let me assure you, I am the last person to try and convert people to HD's just for what they are, but I for one really enjoy the different style of riding they offer. I will always own a sports machine, because that is my prefrence of riding but it's pretty cool to be able to go for a ride with the wife or the girlfriend and just cruise and enjoy the scenery.

Jim2, I appreciate your comments because you've obviously ridden a couple but wouldn't you say you enjoyed the Fatboy just a little because of what it was? Maybe not, I don't know but I used to be the biggest HD knocker you ever met. Untill I rode one.

Nuff said

[White trash]

P.S. Shit you get up early!

[merv]

On the HOG poker run on Sunady there were almost 300 bikes. After 300kms of touring there was only one disagreement over riding styles (directed at me funnily enough)

So WT have you got a HOG that you were riding Sunday? The riding style thing were you trying to hunch over the HOG like you were still on the GSXR?

You would have spotted us Ulysses dudes on the hill and down into Featherston as we were all getting mixed up with each other on Sunday. I was a bit slow standing there as we were talking as the HOG's went by but I should have pulled my camera out earlier at Featherston and snapped you dudes cruising by, but in the end I just snapped the Ulysses line up as we regrouped.

[6Chris6]

Quote "Does anyone know anyone who is looking at getting back into bikes and is lusting over an HD, Can you save them??? Should you try????"
Since i got my bike a mate of mine has decided he wants a Hardly Driveable and no amount of logical debate will change his mind "But it's overpriced and handles like a pig on stilts bro" It's just the name lets face it 9 out of 10 people don't know what a gixxer, R1, Busa is but who doesn't know what a Harley is?

[White trash]

So WT have you got a HOG that you were riding Sunday? The riding style thing were you trying to hunch over the HOG like you were still on the GSXR?

You would have spotted us Ulysses dudes on the hill and down into Featherston as we were all getting mixed up with each other on Sunday. I was a bit slow standing there as we were talking as the HOG's went by but I should have pulled my camera out earlier at Featherston and snapped you dudes cruising by, but in the end I just snapped the Ulysses line up as we regrouped.

It seems one of the fuddy duddys I over took between Feathers and Martinborough thought I was a bit close. This is from an experianced road racer too. He is actually full of it because I was purposfully VERY considerate as I know what a moaning bunch of arseholes they can be. I may have caught your group just after the T intersection heading down towards Martinborough? My riding buddies were riding a red XB12 Buell (2 up) and a red FXD (solo). They were being a bit silly with the Ulysies guys where as I hung back and slowly moved through the pack. I was on a Silver/Black V-Rod.

I waved to everyone in case I knew someone.

[Grumpy]

Interesting about the 2 year waiting list for a touring HD in the states.
I was talking to a yank who was installing a machine for us a while ago. He was like a walking HD billboard with the t shirt, belt buckle, hat and all the shit.
I says to him "love ya Harleys' eh?"
He replied "buckets of shit, but they're American. Wouldn't ride anything else."

I think that's an example of what the Japs are up against in the American market.

There'll always be someone for just about any bike on the market. We all ride a particular bike for different reasons, be it pose value, riding style etc... or as in my wife's case, colour Thats what makes the biking fraternity such an interesting bunch.

[James Deuce]

P.S. Shit you get up early!

Small kids and on-call combined to give me about 4 hours broken sleep last night

Those prices you quote don't match anything like the prices I've been seeing in the trade rags. The latest Wellington Motorcycles ad, had the VROD listed at $45k. And the list price for the new Sportsters has the range starting at $20k

And yes I do think the 999 costs more to build than a GSXR. The business is smaller than Suzuki, the overheads are bigger, and the componentry and labour is more expensive.

The Fat Boy scared the crap out of me. No handling, no brakes, and no engine. A new Goldwing on the other had is a delight in comparison. The 1800 might be $60k, but I can see why. I've ridden an Aspencade and it actually stopped, went, and handled (to a point) predictably.

Thanks for a thoughtful reply.

[White trash]

In fact, here's a pic of him bleating about it to my boss!

If you're reading this J B, no offence

[MikeL]

Image is everything. A motorcycle or a car is not just an assembly of metal, glass and plastic with a set of performance statistics (speed, acceleration, braking etc.). If that were the case, our purchases would be based on logic and rational thinking. In fact a car or bike is a very potent symbol that represents or reflects something intimately connected with our sense of self-identity (which explains why it is often impossible to articulate our choices and we fall back on lame phrases like "It's just me"). Exactly how, where and when a particular type of bike picked up the rich symbolic meanings it has for any given individual is often impossible to determine. Obviously for those of us in the more mature age group, what we saw, rode or longed for when we were younger plays an important role. Advertising and the deliberate creation of an image targetted at a particular group would be an important factor as well, particularly nowadays.
For me HD doesn't make my heart beat faster, but I can understand the attraction. Now if we were talking Triumph, Norton or Vincent...

[White trash]

Small kids and on-call combined to give me about 4 hours broken sleep last night

Those prices you quote don't match anything like the prices I've been seeing in the trade rags. The latest Wellington Motorcycles ad, had the VROD listed at $45k. And the list price for the new Sportsters has the range starting at $20k

And yes I do think the 999 costs more to build than a GSXR. The business is smaller than Suzuki, the overheads are bigger, and the componentry and labour is more expensive.

The Fat Boy scared the crap out of me. No handling, no brakes, and no engine. A new Goldwing on the other had is a delight in comparison. The 1800 might be $60k, but I can see why. I've ridden an Aspencade and it actually stopped, went, and handled (to a point) predictably.

Thanks for a thoughtful reply.

The V-rod you are thinking of is a 100th anniversary edition. Price is $41950. I know. The 2004 VRSCB list is $36300 and VRSCA $38000.

Do not follow list prices as advertised in the Motorcycle trader, they have not updated prices since the beginning of 2003.

I attach a retail price list (if I can get it to work!)

[James Deuce]

The V-rod you are thinking of is a 100th anniversary edition. Price is $41950. I know. The 2004 VRSCB list is $36300 and VRSCA $38000.

Do not follow list prices as advertised in the Motorcycle trader, they have not updated prices since the beginning of 2003.

I attach a retail price list (if I can get it to work!)

Cheers mate (good job on getting it to work!!) - I should read the ads better! The Sportster prices were obviously for the 1200 series. And yes the VROD price was for the anniversary.

[White trash]

While we're all on the HD band waggon. Who here has had the pleasure of riding a Buell?

Wellington Motorcycles are haveing a Demo week between March 22 and 27.

PM me your details, I'll call you to organise a ride and you'll go in the draw to win a new Buell at the end of the year once all the Australasian demo day are complete. Jimbo750 has ridden one and quite enjoyed it. This guy is the biggest Gixxer diehard I know.

Any takers?

[James Deuce]

While we're all on the HD band waggon. Who here has had the pleasure of riding a Buell?

Wellington Motorcycles are haveing a Demo week between March 22 and 27.

PM me your details, I'll call you to organise a ride and you'll go in the draw to win a new Buell at the end of the year once all the Australasian demo day are complete. Jimbo750 has ridden one and quite enjoyed it. This guy is the biggest Gixxer diehard I know.

Any takers?

Yup - XB9?? I'm a twin/handling freak (TRX 850 rocks!!). Sounds like my sort of thing!

Every time I see a post from you Steriogram songs just start bouncing around inside my head. The new one is driving my nuts RIGHT now!!