WTF has howstuffworks.com been smoking???

**Gixxer 4 ever** · 29th January 2006, 17:59

Oddly enough they are right. As you ride along a straight road try it some time. Just a little and you will note the bike will lean over. When you go out and go hard on a windy road you will find this type of steering will give you a lot of cortol in the corners. It is a great way to ride. Don't try and teach a newbie to ride like this cos they will think so much about it you they will struggle. It really works and is the step up to better riding when you get confidence.

**Ixion** · 29th January 2006, 18:06

Off topic, but has anyone ver built a twp wheel steer bike - where the rear wheel steers also, so the front and rear wheels can follow the same curve radius ? Anyone want to? And ride it? While I watch?

**Toast** · 29th January 2006, 18:17

Originally Posted by Ixion

Off topic, but has anyone ver built a twp wheel steer bike - where the rear wheel steers also, so the front and rear wheels can follow the same curve radius ? Anyone want to? And ride it? While I watch?

That would be very interesting. They do it for some cars, right?

**pritch** · 29th January 2006, 18:27

Originally Posted by markauckland

i hardly "push the bars"

With a little bike you probably don't need to, but if the bike is:
A, heavy
B, slow steering or
C, going very quick

you will need to countersteer.

There are other things you may need to do, like weighting a peg, but you do need to know about counter steering. You do need to practice it or when you really need to get out of the way of something you won't be able to do it.

**Winston001** · 29th January 2006, 18:46

Here is a somewhat longer explanation. Basically the wheel falls off toward the road on the opposite side to which the handlebars are turned. This is caused by the forward rake of the front wheel and the shape of the tyre itself, which is rounded. A square car tyre would not behave like this.

http://www.msgroup.org/TIP048.html

**marty** · 29th January 2006, 20:06

countersteering works on the principle of gyroscopic precession, that is, on a gyroscopic plane (your front wheel) the result of any input will occur 90 degrees in the direction of rotation. think about it. travelling @ 50km/h. pull on the right handlebar, the bike wants to fall/lean/turn to the left. by pulling on the right bar, you are applying a turning force through the axle, effectively trying to push the back of the wheel to the left, and the front of the wheel to the right. precession however, inputs this force 90 degrees in the direction of rotation, and pushes the top of the wheel over to the left - the bottom is 'fixed' to the road, so instead of pushing the bottom of the wheel to the right (not quite but almost) twice the force goes to the top of the wheel - to the left. bingo - countersteering.

helicopters are controlled in exactly the same manner, except the disc ariculates around the mast - you can see the disc tilt in the direction of flight - the input though is 90 degrees before the desired result.

**R6_kid:Me** · 29th January 2006, 20:13

Originally Posted by markauckland

hey i just ride i don't really think about it havn't failed a corner yet so i must be doing something right lol guess i do it naturally then?:S lol

as you will never ride a real bike this will never apply to you.

**marty** · 29th January 2006, 20:14

Originally Posted by Winston001

Here is a somewhat longer explanation. Basically the wheel falls off toward the road on the opposite side to which the handlebars are turned. This is caused by the forward rake of the front wheel and the shape of the tyre itself, which is rounded. A square car tyre would not behave like this.

http://www.msgroup.org/TIP048.html

increased rake actually decreases the effect of countersteering, as the effect of rake 'fall' is greater than that of gyroscopic precession. a square car tyre does suffer from precession, but it is fixed by the axle and drivetrain, and therefore overcomes the small precession force, and turns in the direction it is literally forced to go.

**Mental Trousers** · 29th January 2006, 20:33

Simple test to show how it works. Grab the front wheel off a bicycle. Hold on to it with both hands on the axle and spin it. Now push your right hand forward slightly (not hard or you'll loose skin on your arm). What you would expect to happen is for the front of the wheel to move to the left - but it won't. What'll happen is the bottom of the wheel will try to step out to the left, making the whole wheel lean to the right. That, is exactly what happens when you're steering a motorbike, done subconsciously if you haven't been taught.

**vtec** · 29th January 2006, 20:55

I think some of you guys are overcomplicating the countersteering theory.

Firstly all the gyroscopic force does, is resist any change in direction of the spinning thing (ie. the wheel).

Secondly just roll a wheel along the ground. When you turn it to the left... low and behold it moves to the left. On a motorbike, this translates to the tyres underneath you moving to the left, thus leaning the bike to the right. The reason why a bike wants to straighten up is mostly to do with the caster angle. It might have something to do with gyroscopic forces, but I never really thought of that before. I reckon its a combination of gyroscopic force and the caster angle.

**James Deuce** · 29th January 2006, 21:12

Err, isn't that EXACTLY what Marty said vtec, but with grown up words?

**ducatilover** · 29th January 2006, 22:08

Originally Posted by marty

countersteering works on the principle of gyroscopic precession, that is, on a gyroscopic plane (your front wheel) the result of any input will occur 90 degrees in the direction of rotation. think about it. travelling @ 50km/h. pull on the right handlebar, the bike wants to fall/lean/turn to the left. by pulling on the right bar, you are applying a turning force through the axle, effectively trying to push the back of the wheel to the left,

turning the back wheel to the left? i would have thought it would be trying to go straight ahead? like when you corner to the left in a cage you feel you are pushed to the right but you re actually still trying to stay on the same vetcot/direction you were going in before the force was applied to you? its all that 6th form physics with centrapetal force etc

**skidMark** · 29th January 2006, 22:26

Originally Posted by gareth_d

as you will never ride a real bike this will never apply to you.

how about a nice warm half empty glass of shut the fuck up

and i was out riding tonight and tried ye countersteering....i'm the idiot lol it just seemed random...and shit does it feel weird lol.... but when i get the hang of it ill be a better riding....just hope i don't fall off while learning lol grab some

people this will be interesting