Petition for removal of L plate and 70km/hr limit????

[scumdog]

The fact that a youner person has 'acquired' a licence of any sort often give them confidence, sadly it is often elevated to 'overconfidence' with disasterous results.

They seem to be out of sight until they get the dreaded 'L' and then woohoo, they're everywhere and anything goes " 'cos I've got a licence"
Talking about car licences here.

[Wolf]

It's been a while since it was last posted so here's the New South Wales Approved List for novice riders.

They've specifically banned five 250s (including the RGV and the NSR) and allowed over 200 models between 251 and 660ccs - a lot more scope for the learner. I note the BMW F650GS is deemed a suitable learner bike and if you're too tall for one of those you probably won't have luck getting a car licence either...

[Ixion]

I also note from the same site

Mature age riders

If you are 30 years of age or older and hold, or are eligible to hold, a gold driver's licence you may proceed directly from a learner rider's licence to an unrestricted rider's licence, after passing the provisional test (and training if you live in a 'declared area').

While on your Learner Rider's licence you must observe the normal learner rider restrictions as stated in the Motorcycle Rider's Handbook, including the motorcycle engine capacity and power weight restriction.

If you are a mature age rider, you must still attend compulsory rider training, if available in your area. However, you may proceed to the pre-provisional level of rider training or, if you do not live in a 'declared area', the rider test, without having held your Learner Rider's licence for the normal period of three months.

It should be noted that regardless of eligibility for the mature age exemption, a rider must have held a rider's licence for at least 12 months before being permitted to carry a pillion passenger.

[thehollowmen]

As I understand it a LEARNERS licence is just that an oppertunity to learn to ride a bike.

Ahahahaha and considering the house I had was on a 100 km/h road where would I practice?

Then again, on that stretch of road we used to pick learner car drivers out of the frount hedge most saterday nights.

[skidMark]

all these people going on bout baby on board...

what they are actually for is not to say...drive more carefully around me...

but so if there is an accident ememrgency crews know to look for a baby it helps them know that there was a baby on board the vehicle...

they should actually be taken down when there is no baby in the vehicle....

an i say ditch the 70 kph ...keep the rest...

[thehollowmen]

they should actually be taken down when there is no baby in the vehicle....

There used to be a fine for that back in the day.

[FROSTY:Me]

Hitcher--this is one subject Im really passionate about so this isn't aimed at you just responding to your question/statement.
A learner car licence by LAW (not reality) requires the learner driver to have a fully licenced driver accompany them at all times.
We as bikers simply because this is- well impossible, have the right to do a simple scratchy test wobble through some cones and go ride our 180km/h capable 250cc missile.
That to me is an issue.
Basicly yep cos we CAN we do and heaps of people on learners licences end up dead or crashing.
My problem is with a system that doesn't provide the training to catch people when they need it the most --their first 6 months of riding.
The training needs to be not just available but there needs to be a real incentive to take it.

[Hitcher]

Hitcher--this is one subject Im really passionate about so this isn't aimed at you just responding to your question/statement.

I too am passionate about this subject, being a comparatively recent addition to the biker ranks. I also think we may be in danger of violently agreeing with each other. My concern is about the adequacy of the various learn to ride courses and the "qualification" that is the basis for being able to rock up to your LTNZ-approved outlet and walk out with a class 6L licence. I believe that that bar is set way too low, with a result that some riders are out and about on the Queen's highways endangering themselves. But I also believe that on-road experience -- and lots of it -- in all possible conditions, is the best basis for developing some mastery of rider and machine.

[thehollowmen]

Ditto again

I strongly think that the entry bar should be a lot higher for both motorcycle and car licenses involving a "road school" type setting used overseas to build up schools, and that road usage should be considered a priviledge and not a right.

Then again, the other option might be to make compulsary third party insurance and a gestoppo type agency that chases down the guilty driver and extracts every cent, making drivers paranoid about hitting anybody. "An armed society is a polite society"

[Wolf]

The training needs to be not just available but there needs to be a real incentive to take it.

Like it being free! I would have signed up for a proper riding course when I was learning but I ended up enrolling in the School of Hard Knocks because it didn't have an entry fee.

I'm not saying I was too poor, but I did grow up thinking "Marked Down!" and "Half Price" were brand names...

[Hawkeye]

Why then are car learners not restricted to 70 whilst they are getting to grips with driving a car. ? And car drivers have not had to do a Basic Handling Test forst, so would be MORE in need of such protection than bikers. I cannot justify both the bike learner restrictions AND the BHT. Either would be justifiable in absence of the other, but if the BHT is doing what it is supposed to, then the learner restrictions are unjustifiable.

There are significant differences between learner Bikers and learner car drivers. A leaner bike rider is not allowed to carry passengers hence they are out there alone from day one. A car leaner is not allowed onto the road unless there is an experienced driver next to them. Having recently taught my son to drive a car, I pre-empt his mistakes before they happen. I can point out the hazzards before he gets to them. You don't get that luxury on a bike.
Having recently ridden a bike for the first time, I have no problems with having an L-plate on the back. I do find the 70 limit a pain as it took me twice as long to get to Wellington on the bike along the back roads than it does in the car on the Motorway. But there again. On a bike, everything happens just that little bit faster and the less experienced rider out there does not always have the skill level to avoid things.
I enjoyed doing the BHT as it gave me the basis skills before going out on the road. Now all I need to do is get my skill level up before I go out there and try to survive the madness of the motorway.

[thehollowmen]

A car leaner is not allowed onto the road unless there is an experienced driver next to them

So not only are they allowed to have passangers on their modeds / scooters, they're supposed to be able to have sidecars too?!??!?!

[FROSTY:Me]

but to the origonal question.
L plate and 70km/h limit.
70k limit --yes needs to stay --WHY??
Because at 70k ya just might stand a shit show of surviving a crash -a crash you would likely have avoided with more experience.
70k gives you the chance to assess the situation and hopefully react correctly.

Th L plate well yea you are missing the point--its there to warn OTHER road users YOU might act in a errattic manner.
I can hear it now -all the chest beating and testosterone pumping --BUT It wont happen to me -Im too good a rider/Im too lucky--whatever -
HERES a reality check guys. If you are soposed to be on L plates then you DONT have the experience to react correctly to situations.
without decent rider training then at least make use of the system as it stands--use that 6 months to learn how to stop as fast as you can from 70.
Learn how to put your bike around corners.Work out the specific dangers to you at an intersection --and how to react to em.

[sefer]

Originally Posted by FROSTY
The training needs to be not just available but there needs to be a real incentive to take it.

Like it being free! I would have signed up for a proper riding course when I was learning but I ended up enrolling in the School of Hard Knocks because it didn't have an entry fee.

Intresting enough I was at the local driving school today and the instructor there was telling me that they are currently attempting to work out a deal with one of the insurance companies to supply 'free' advanced motorcycle training (based on the cbta courses). Of course this probably just means higher premiums from said company, but at least they are making an effort.

[Wolf]

attempting to work out a deal with one of the insurance companies to supply 'free' advanced motorcycle training (based on the cbta courses). Of course this probably just means higher premiums from said company, but at least they are making an effort.

The School of Hard Knocks didn't do a lot of good for my insurance premiums, either, and replacing bits of bike when I didn't have insurance wasn't good at all.

Said it had no entry fee, not that it was free!