Radar gun accuracy

[Skyryder]

The explosion from OSH on reading that comment? - STILL echoing throughout the land!!!!

So there it is guys. The chances of getting a ticket from a cop not wearing a vest is next to nil.

Skyryder

[scumdog]

So there it is guys. The chances of getting a ticket from a cop not wearing a vest is next to nil.

Skyryder

You forgot to add "Tuis moment here"

[spudchucka]

Spud, I respect the police as my friends are officers, however, I feel I have to respond (apologies from the slight divergence from the topic). Leaving morality and the law aside, the difference between Lou and those that have lost their licences is 99% LUCK. Let's face it, all of us have broken the speed limit in the last 2 years. Had we been caught each time we broke the speed limit (even for doing 5kmh over the limit), none of us would have our licences.

Getting a speeding ticket is not like committing a crime. If you commit a burlary for example and you are not caught at the scene, chances are high that the police will catch up with you. You are always liable for the offence. With a speeding ticket, if you are not caught in the act (by camera or police patrol), you will never be liable.

In my view, I would not find myself thinking "hard done by thoughts" if I knew that everytime someone sped they would receive a ticket (in the same way I am confident that everyone who burgles the local dairy will be caught). An example of this would be a chip in each vehicle that report every incidence of speeding (and no discretion).

My point is that the thousands of kiwis out there who have lost their licences are not all "bad people" who we can comfortably sit back on our high horse and say you are not unlucky you are unfit to hold a licence and should not be driving. In reality, they are the unlucky few who got caught. Adding to this, they are also the unlucky few who did not have the benefit of getting let off (by use of discretion). When Lou or anyone else here replys to these threads for people who have lost their licences (granted some people who get caught at ridiclous speeds deserve it) I feel they are within their rights to say "hard luck" because in reality, until either:

1. everytime we speed we are automatically caught; or
2. everyone here can stand up and say "I have never broken the speed limit",

that is exactly what it is!

I can't quite agree with you on the luck aspect, although I do understand your point and sure, luck can come into it. However if you get caught say twice or three times for speeding and you clock up say 70 demerit points, you are now sitting on 30 points only before your licence leaves you for 3 months. Would you not then take measures to ensure you retain your licence? Measures like slowing down to speeds where you won't get a ticket.

If you get to the 70 demerit point level it may well have been a run of bad luck that got you there but if you continue to speed, relying only on good luck to ensure that you keep your licence then I'm afraid you are entering the realms of complete stupidity. If you lose your licence from there it isn't because of bad luck. It is because you were to stupid to pay heed to the warning bells that should be ringing loud and clear every time you head out onto the road.

I don't think I've said anywhere that poeple who lose their licence on demerit points are "bad people", some of them no doubt are but to me the majority are simply stupid and don't value their licence.

[spudchucka]

So my question is. Do the public have a right in anyway whatsoever to prevent the officer from leaving from his own volition??


Skyryder

Not that I am aware of.

[sAsLEX]

Not that I am aware of.

citizens arrest?

[marty]

there is no requirement for police to wait for you to obtain legal advice before they undertake their procedure. you can take all the advice you want, no cop is going to wait for you to get off the phone, and how can you get accurate legal advice if you haven't been formally told of the charges you are facing? is your lawyer going to talk to the cop and try to talk them out of the ticket? how do they even know you're getting legal advice from a lawyer? should they ask to see the lawyer's LLB? do they even care?

and citizen's arrest - not unless it is for an offence punishable by imprisonment.

[spudchucka]

citizens arrest?

I'm looking forward to meeting the first person who tires that.

[Lou Girardin]

The true story:

OSH man writes to Sgt, says he got a ticket from an officer who crossed the road to issue it and was not wearing flouro vest, why was he not and did he know it was dangerous NOT to wear it?

Sgt sends out a "please explain" to cop.

Cop says "fair enough, but I have been crossing roads now for about 35 years or more quite safely, I feel I was less of a danger to myself than the OSh inspector was to the public by speeding through town, pass it on"

The explosion from OSH on reading that comment? - STILL echoing throughout the land!!!!

In my day, we didn't wear high vis vests because they weren't cool. And what do ya know, our supervisors didn't give a damn!
Times have changed.

[Grahameeboy]

In my day, we didn't wear high vis vests because they weren't cool. And what do ya know, our supervisors didn't give a damn!
Times have changed.

Arh...the good old days eh.......

[sAsLEX]

I'm looking forward to meeting the first person who tries that.

And if the were legally in the right what would you do?

[marty]

thing is saslex, they won't be, it will be an unlawful detention, no ifs buts or maybes about it.

think about it - people have been convicted of holding car thieves/burglars/assaulters against their will, even though they did it in the best intentions.

i would suggest you would find YOURSELF being arrested (by someone who DOES have authority bestowed upon them) for kidnapping/unlawful detention. what an interesting turn of events that would prove to be.

saslex: you're under arrest

policeman: no, i don't think so. YOU'RE under arrest.

saslex: no, YOU'RE under arrest. i said it first. bags first. no returns (places thumb on forehead)

policeman: whatever. here, would you like some pepper spray with that attitude pizza......

[sAsLEX]

thing is saslex, they won't be, it will be an unlawful detention, no ifs buts or maybes about it.

so a cop does something illegal that is punishable by imprisonment, I dont know lets say walks over to a toddler and beats it to death with a batton, note this is a crazy extreme example. I could not lawfully detain him?

[Ixion]

What is commonly called "Citizens Arrest"

CRIMES ACT 1961
PART 3 - MATTERS OF JUSTIFICATION OR EXCUSE
Arrest
35. Arrest of persons found committing certain crimes—

35.Arrest of persons found committing certain crimes—


Every one is justified in arresting without warrant—

(a)Any person whom he finds committing any offence against this Act that is punishable by death or for which the maximum punishment is not less than 3 years' imprisonment:

(b)Any person whom he finds by night committing any offence against this Act

36.Arrest of person believed to be committing crime by night—


Every one is protected from criminal responsibility for arresting without warrant any person whom he finds by night in circumstances affording reasonable and probable grounds for believing that that person is committing an offence against this Act.

37.Arrest after commission of certain crimes—


Where any offence against this Act has been committed, every one who believes, on reasonable and probable grounds, that any person has committed that offence is protected from criminal responsibility for arresting that person without warrant, whether or not that person committed the offence.

"Any person whom he finds". Nothing about "unless the person is a policeman".

But it would require a far bolder man than I to try it. And bear in mind that many things that would be "offences against this Act" if done by Joe Blow are not offences if done by a policeman in execution of his duty.

Of course a policeman NOT acting in the course of his duty is no different (for most purposes) to any other person.

Still, you would need to be VERY VERY sure of yourself before trying it!.

[spudchucka]

And if the were legally in the right what would you do?

They wouldn't be. Its an absurd scenario.

[spudchucka]

so a cop does something illegal that is punishable by imprisonment, I dont know lets say walks over to a toddler and beats it to death with a batton, note this is a crazy extreme example. I could not lawfully detain him?

Like I said in the last post, its an absurd scenario.