Triumph and England

[Pixie]

Yep, saw that when I went in to buy a mirror yesterday. Lotsa Vespae , an MV Agusta, and a Cagiva in the window. Not much available in the way of accessories though!

Vespi
It's Italian, not Latin

[Motu]

Too right! All that stuff was worn out when we were riding them,and personaly I find the ''restored'' bikes just as bad,built from half a dozen different models with layers of bodge jobs to uncover.

There was a big reluctance to move ahead by the manufacturers,almost a team effort against Lucas and Amal.The Amal Concentric was a nasty cheap replacement for the honourable Monobloc,but BSA/Triumph and the others didn't want anything better.Same with Lucas - the first altenator was fitted to the 1954 Thunderbird (for those who knew them,the stator was in the outer case) Altenators were leading edge at the time like Paul says,cars didn't go to Altenators until the 60s,and some were DC into the 70s.But then they tried to strangle the system to 6 volts,having a daytime and nightime setting,and an emergency start where it put out 12 volts.Bizare,but finally it was sorted to a simple 12 volt system with zener diode control and twin point ignition with seperate points and timing control for each cylinder...the car guys could only dream about what we had on bikes.And yet all they got was ridicule.

I hated the DC generator systems,and unfortunatly all the shitty bikes I rode had them,magdyno's on the singles,seperate magneto's and generator's on the twins.I could never get them to work properly,even when I had the generators proffesionaly rebuild and brand new regulators.But my wife was a PO technician and the generator on her bikes always work,if it didn't she would somehow fix it...she was handy to have around.These days you can get replacement solid state generators and regulators,12 volt too.

[Ixion]

In a way, the problem was that the old iron was too tough. It would keep on going despite lack of maintainance & bodge repairs that would have a modern bike self destruct totally within a few kilometres.

If the old Briddish twins had received a fraction of the servicing and expertise that is now considered axiomatic, they would never had had a reputation for unreliability.

Really, modern bikes are more unreliable, because if they were treated that way they simply would not go at all - but that is self limiting, whereas a bodged Triumph would keep on starting, run for quite a while, and then break down, be bodged again, the bodge would fail again , be rebodged and so on - "It's unreliable, keeps breaking down ". Noone ever asked "Uh, it keeps breaking down. And you keep fixing it ? See a connection? "

I reckon the Lucas K2F magneto was probably the most reliable electrical thing ever fitted to a vehicle.

And I never had any problems with DC generators, car or bike. Sort the bearings sort the brushes clean the regulator points and adjust the gap. Worked every time.

And Jap bikes aren't exactly renowned for electrical reliability. Honda regulators , anyone

And as for the Eyties ---

[Motu]

I always prefered the BTH,a much better mag than the Lucas item.The problem with the twin cyl mags was variation of timing between cyls,up to 10 degrees at times....then you had to ''split'' the timing,running one cyl advanced,the other retarded.The best I ever saw a Lucas was 4 degrees,the best BTH was 2 deg,but still not good enough .

[Paul in NZ]

I hated the DC generator systems,and unfortunatly all the shitty bikes I rode had them,magdyno's on the singles,seperate magneto's and generator's on the twins.I could never get them to work properly,even when I had the generators proffesionaly rebuild and brand new regulators.But my wife was a PO technician and the generator on her bikes always work,if it didn't she would somehow fix it...she was handy to have around.These days you can get replacement solid state generators and regulators,12 volt too.

No way!! I started as a PO tech and thats the only way I could get my DC systems to work because we were trained on stuff like that. The old blokes at work would show you in about 5 minutes what was wrong with the exchange AVO 7 or 8 (nice meters)

I really hated the way Triumph mounted the generator on the pre units! I never ever managed a oil tight seal for any length of time. Nasty! magdynos (shudder)

I used to find most old shitters I bought had the polarity of the gennie screwed up and you needed to flash them to get it right. The regulators were generally OK but even fully functional the output was sad. Because they were old wrecks they usually had modern headlamps that some bright spark thought would solve all the problems. Just drained the buggered battery faster! Funnily enough. My AJS system worked great! Ancient 6V battery and all (old square black one)

Thank god for magnetos.!

Paul N

ps - I read an article that was an interview with the chief sales guy for AMAL. He said the brit bike industry cartel made sure that the price for a carb was fixed at one pound. That was it! AMAL knew how to make a good carb but no one would pay for them to be made of good materials. Concentrics are actually quite a good design when new, they just wear out fast and are easily distorted. From memory they were introduced so Norton could run a bigger downdraft on the manifold (amoung other things).

Cheers

[Paul in NZ]

And as for the Eyties ---

Hmm.. The Guzzi uses all Bosch components and really. it's been very good provided you don't mess with it beyond the well documented modifications (the ones that work). Thank god for Guzziology!

The wiring design is a little erratic on the otherhand but by the Mk2 at least the switchgear was a little better than the old lego block stuff and thats one thing the japanese have been good at! Decent switches (usually)

Cheers

[Paul in NZ]

At this rate we will have to form an old crusty forum...

Paul N

[Ixion]

I always prefered the BTH,a much better mag than the Lucas item.The problem with the twin cyl mags was variation of timing between cyls,up to 10 degrees at times....then you had to ''split'' the timing,running one cyl advanced,the other retarded.The best I ever saw a Lucas was 4 degrees,the best BTH was 2 deg,but still not good enough .

Little bit of time with a slip stone on the cam ring helped a lot with that. I am probably a bit prejudiced against BTH, cos the one on the Velo seemed to have a irrestable attraction for water. Nothing seemed to keep it out .

[Motu]

Heh,heh,the old crusties are running away with this one alright!

I once spent a fortune rebuilding the Lucas mag on my G9 (you can tell a Matchy twin mag because of the push stop button on the points cover) I had the armature rewound,new bearings,cam ring and points - when I set it up on the bike with a degree wheel it was 4 degrees out! I later fitted a distributor from a Morris Minor,using a two lobe cam and cap...it was only 2 deg out,and easier to adjust with a stone if you could be bothered.Looking back with over 30 yrs hindsight,I think it was more missaligment of the points housing,a bit better set up with getting the armature true would get them better.

[Hitcher]

After Suzuki and Kawaski started jointly marketing certain models it's obvious there's going to be more of this going on.

That marriage ended in tears before bedtime. One of the partners was flogging off its badge-engineered kit cheaper than the OEM. Tsk tsk.

[Paul in NZ]

Heh,heh,the old crusties are running away with this one alright!

I once spent a fortune rebuilding the Lucas mag on my G9 (you can tell a Matchy twin mag because of the push stop button on the points cover) I had the armature rewound,new bearings,cam ring and points - when I set it up on the bike with a degree wheel it was 4 degrees out! I later fitted a distributor from a Morris Minor,using a two lobe cam and cap...it was only 2 deg out,and easier to adjust with a stone if you could be bothered.Looking back with over 30 yrs hindsight,I think it was more missaligment of the points housing,a bit better set up with getting the armature true would get them better.

Degree wheel! No wonder it drove you mad! Set it up with an old spoke down the pot and if it runs, that'll do!

I see all the classic racer boys are getting all their tits in a tangle over mag / fake mag rules these days. Does it really matter i wonder?

[Motu]

Perhaps if they were using digital programable igntion curves there could be a point of complaint - otherwise it's just a spark,no big deal about how it happens.

I got to admit I had less problems with a school ruler and stick with a cigarette paper in the points than any high tech method....being fussy just creates problems.

[Paul in NZ]

....being fussy just creates problems.

Exactly.. I'm always telling Vicki that!

[El Dopa]

Now available from motomail.
Along with MVAgusta

Yeah, like I said, IF I could afford one. You can keep the vespa, though.

I'll be popping along for my Agusta F4 and my Raptor Thursday morning, right after I tell the boss to shove it. My numbers are coming up Wednesday night, baby!

[Big Dave]

Yeah, like I said, IF I could afford one. You can keep the vespa, though.

I'll be popping along for my Agusta F4 and my Raptor Thursday morning, right after I tell the boss to shove it. My numbers are coming up Wednesday night, baby!

Nice - I'll have a new 900 Brutale if you can jag the powerball too pls.