With all the talk of turbos lately...

[onearmedbandit]

I hope BMW make a better attempt at direct injection than Mitsubishi did with their GDI engines.They were only game enough to to put them into their own domestic market though.....oops,and then they end up here.They apparently run EGR almost continuously to keep combustion temps down....that detonation mentioned earlier.This then fills the engine with so much crap the only way to clean pistons valves and combustion chambers is by using oven cleaner.The Japanese domestic market is used by the manufacturers for preproduction testing - why the fuck do we end up with the failed experiments?....sorry,rant mode off.

Direct injection is the ideal....pretty soon the petrol engine might be half as efficient as the diesel.

Umm, Motu GDi's were sold throughout the world. They were first released in 1996 in Japan, have since been sold new in different parts of the world.

What other 'failed experiments' do we end up with that are not used in other markets?

[bugjuice]

so in lesser words, this whole thing is just a direct injection engine (which has been around for yonks) with a turbo strapped on?
There's nothing special or different about the turbo, it's actually all about the motor it's bolted on?

And there was an internet article about some dude who injected his CBR250RR, then bolted a turbo onto it..
you can turbo almost any motor in theory

[Ixion]

Hm. Been sniffing around. 'Twould appear that the detonation problem is not QUITE solved! Or at any rate, there seems to be a lot of interest still in solving it!

Reading between the lines, it would appear that GDI works OK, so long as everything is *exactly* spot on. But in the real world (bugger of a place, that), things seldom stay "spot on" for long. Then Mr Detonation comes a calling. And given the beast that GDI is, that may mean a completely wrecked engine in a few seconds (Though no engine manufacturer will admit to that!). To counter that, instances so far either use a markedly over rich mixture, or full time EGR. Which is fine and dandy on a new engine. But once the miles clock up, oh dear.

And turbocharging is going to make all of those worse. Much worse.

BTW, GDI was first used by Mercedes in 1955 on the 300SL. It was then "reinvented " by Mitsubishi in 1996. So it has staggered out of the pits a few times, and each time died ignominiously. The reason that manufacturers are pushing it back onto the track is Californian fuel efficiency requirements. As noted, on a nice new engine, under ideal conditions, GDI can run ultra lean, and produce very nice consumptions figures. Quite good enough to make the Californian grade. And the californian legislators do not actually consider what happens a year or two down the line. Phew, we're in boys.

I don't think I'll hold my breath., And if it did actually get up and running I'd have to ask - if we've gone that far down the road toward what is almost a diesel engine, why not go the whole hog and go diesel?

[Motu]

Umm, Motu GDi's were sold throughout the world. They were first released in 1996 in Japan, have since been sold new in different parts of the world.

What other 'failed experiments' do we end up with that are not used in other markets?

For a start you answered your own question - first released in Japan.

Secondly,they are failed experiments because they were never intended to run beyond 7 years,or whenever they were put off the road in Japan....we are continuing to run the experiment to it's conclusion.I think everyone has concluded that the Mitsi GDI is a total fuck up.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Steinie? That's like, early '90's at best dude...Stella is the beer of choice here in Shit City...actually I think it's Heineken now...things move so fast.

As you can see mate...not for me!

[onearmedbandit]

For a start you answered your own question - first released in Japan.

Secondly,they are failed experiments because they were never intended to run beyond 7 years,or whenever they were put off the road in Japan....we are continuing to run the experiment to it's conclusion.I think everyone has concluded that the Mitsi GDI is a total fuck up.

First released in Japan, yes. But you made no mention of new sales elsewhere (including New Zealand). And you alluded to used imports. But anyway, I agree. GDi is a total fuck up.

[slimjim]

But we are interested in bikes. And if the big advantage of DI is that it permits higher compression ratios, and higher power at (presumably) lower revs; will we not have the same problem as diesels in bikes. That the engine compenents, castings, scantlings etc have to be so strong and heavy that they are impractical on a bike. (I'm assuming that the turbo lag can be eliminated - not a good thing on a bike , that, I would think).

Dunno, m'self, just wondering.

should have a read up on the diesels bike that's been built oversea's, lovely'