Where it all started

[phantom]

Found these scans of some old photos. Wouldn't mind one of you wise ones identifying the bikes that Mum and Dad are on. They were obviously on a beach ride somewhere. The mass ride photo is taken in Cuba Street, Palmerston North, no idea when - any guesses

[Motu]

He's on a Matchless single,she on a Triumph Twin,dunno what sizes - the Matchless 350 or 500,the Triumph 500 or 650.But both are a little unusual,competition models I think - the swing arm Matchless (possibly a 1951) has a sprung single seat and pillion pad,normaly only seen on rigid frames.The Triumph has no narcele and very thin guards,I've never seen bikes like either.That looks like a BSA Bantam he's riding in a trial,but I'm not too sure about that,the left crankcase is unusual,looks like a Bantam tank,but the writing isn't,but the rest looks Bantam.Cool photos.

[Jantar]

He's on a Matchless single,she on a Triumph Twin,dunno what sizes - the Matchless 350 or 500,the Triumph 500 or 650.But both are a little unusual,competition models I think - the swing arm Matchless (possibly a 1951) has a sprung single seat and pillion pad,normaly only seen on rigid frames.The Triumph has no narcele and very thin guards,I've never seen bikes like either.That looks like a BSA Bantam he's riding in a trial,but I'm not too sure about that,the left crankcase is unusual,looks like a Bantam tank,but the writing isn't,but the rest looks Bantam.Cool photos.

The first two are definitely Matchless and Triumph. My picks would be the 350 and 500. The other one, like Motu, I first thought Bantam, but then the crankcase gave me the clue that it could be a mid 50s Jawa 175. The tank badge is not sharp enough to sure about anything, but look at the bulge on the crankcase, and the main stand being part of the rear of the swing arm.

[Skyryder]

Found these scans of some old photos. Wouldn't mind one of you wise ones identifying the bikes that Mum and Dad are on. They were obviously on a beach ride somewhere. The mass ride photo is taken in Cuba Street, Palmerston North, no idea when - any guesses

Bit of a stab in the dark but the mass bikes would be some where in the early fifty's. There a Morris Minor parked in with the cars. Not too sure the first year they came out but the series two was manufactured in 1952 so that's a starting point. There's also a newish looking Trump up in the top left hand corner. I'm picking it's a Thunderbird. Now th eother interesting thing is that the Thunderbird? rider is wearing what looks like a bomber jacket and as far as I can tell no one in the group photo is wearing one. The bomber look was synomous with Brit bikes from the fifty's right up til today. Don't see many now but in early NZ morocycling they were as cool as Spidi is today. so for a stab in the dark I'd go no later than 1955 but for the group photo Perhaps as early as '52 or '53.

[Motu]

All the 125 2 strokes were near identical copies of the DKW,even the Japanese ones,so it's pretty hard to pick them apart...but I'm sure it's not a Bantam.The Triumph would be maybe 1938,pre narcel with speedo in the fuel tank.

I don't see a Morris Minor,but the standout late model car is the Dodge or Plymouth,they came out in 1949,I can also see what looks like a Phase 1 Vanguard,so early '50s for sure.No headlamps on some bikes,numbers on others...a road trial?

[Skyryder]

All the 125 2 strokes were near identical copies of the DKW,even the Japanese ones,so it's pretty hard to pick them apart...but I'm sure it's not a Bantam.The Triumph would be maybe 1938,pre narcel with speedo in the fuel tank.

I don't see a Morris Minor,but the standout late model car is the Dodge or Plymouth,they came out in 1949,I can also see what looks like a Phase 1 Vanguard,so early '50s for sure.No headlamps on some bikes,numbers on others...a road trial?

Fourth car in from the right. Thought it was a minor. Now not sure. Could be a bit big. Looks like a Morris of some sort.

Skyryder

[phantom]

Thanks for the info guys. I can remember dad boasting that he used to ride the quickest Bantam in NZ and that there was very little left standard ,although no doubt everyone used to say that in the 50s. Dad used to compete in trials, scrambles and road racing but pretty much gave it all up when I arrived on the scene. Incidentally in the mass ride picture, Mum is the young lady distracting the traffic officer in the top right ( Dads riding bike 22 )

[Ixion]

Is that a Triumph 3T ? Barrel and head don't look right for a SpeedTwin, and too small for a Thunderbird. And it's not the alloy T100.

That Yank car in the group picture is 52 or 53. I don't think that is a Phase 1 Vanguard though.

[Motu]

That's an LIP Vauxhall I think - see all the boot racks? You could put all sorts of stuff on those things....wonder where they went?

[Ixion]

The trials one IS a Bantam. The very very first Bantams had a different generator, and didn't have the insane chicken.

Here's a couple of pictures of 1948 and 1949 Bantams. Note the generators, and the tank picture

[Motu]

Right you are there Ixion,the 3T didn't have separate rocker boxes,and instead of screw in caps had an alloy cover over both valves.I don't like the way that front pipe comes out of the Matchy either,it's at an angle and too low - but I don't think they made a sidevalve and the bike is too big for a 250.

[Ixion]

The other oddity, is that a swing arm Matchy of that era should have jampots. AND - either my eyes are playing up, or the barrel on the Matchy is slanted - like a BSA Sloper.

EDIT You're right about the pipe on the Matchy. There doesn't seem to be enough above it to contain valve gear

[eliot-ness]

The Triumph is definitely pre 1950, probably 1948ish mufflers, Nickel and paint tank, sprung seat and solid pillion seat all standard to mid 1949. Nacelle, new tank badge and all painted tank came in on the 1950 model
The Matchless is almost definitely the Matchless badged AJS 18s 500cc or
16ms 350
The bike being used off road is a Bantam in full road trim, Guards and rear plate hoder are a dead giveaway.Looks to have rear suspension so I'd say mid 50s

[Motu]

Our resident Bantam expert (my wife) picked out the early left case straight off ''Oh,that's a very early one'' she says ''they had a different generator''.

I've been looking at some early books,and the early cast iron head Matchy singles had the front pipe angling down,the later alloy head came out straight,so it's ok then,350 or 500.As for jam pots,I once had a very early G3,it was a swing arm but didn't have jam pots,my 1953 G9 did have them - I think the very first AMC shocks,and they were the first with a production swing arm by many years - were not fat jam pots.

[Ixion]

A bit more research on the Bantam. The only year that they brought out plunger models with the old genny (they changed mid way through the year) was 1950.

Probably, 1951 by the time it was shipped here and sold. So I think we can date that fairly well to 1951 give or take a year (vintage year that was) . And as the bike looks still in pretty good nick (especially for a trials bike ), I suspect the photo was taken around 1952 or 1953. Which fits with the 52/53 car in the group photo.

We're getting there, folks.

EDIT You are right about the jampots. The first swing arm Matchys were 1949 and used a skinny shock, as in the picture. Called "candlesticks" apparently by the cognoscenti. The things you learn. The first jampots were 1951.