F**k, Damn, Triple f**k, shit!

**Ixion** · 19th October 2008, 12:42

Whatever it is , I doubt that it will be able to be fixed without some degree of stripping of the engine unit. I'm assuming that you can normally start it with the starter with the clutch disengaged? If so, it's not just the clutch release mechanism jammed up.

EDIT: If you put the bike in gear and use the starter motor, does the bike move forward ?

**Wolf** · 19th October 2008, 12:48

Originally Posted by Ixion

Whatever it is , I doubt that it will be able to be fixed without some degree of stripping of the engine unit. I'm assuming that you can normally start it with the starter with the clutch disengaged? If so, it's not just the clutch release mechanism jammed up.

Normally starts fine in first with the clutch disengaged (providing the clutch safety switch is not acting up as sometimes happens, forcing me to take it out of first to get the starter to work at all).

Even in neutral the starter sounds like it's running mostly free (sounds a mite noisy to be running totally unencumbered)

**skidMark** · 19th October 2008, 12:53

Originally Posted by FJRider

Crockashit...

the same resistance as after pulling the plug(s) out.... NONE...

wrong..... theres a big difference between the starter driving an engine with plugs out / hole in piston , than it spinning free because its teeth are stripped off.

i'm trying to help thier is no need to question my judgement.

get bent.

Ive been working on bikes both personally and chasing it as a career for 3 years, i'm not a total retard.

**Wolf** · 19th October 2008, 12:55

Originally Posted by Ixion

EDIT: If you put the bike in gear and use the starter motor, does the bike move forward ?

**A quick experiment later**
The moment I stick it in gear the safety switch disables the starter circuit. Pulling in the clutch does not over-ride that safety at the moment.

Clutch is not disengaging at all when I pull it in - still feels the same and I can hear stuff (transmission, I suspect) moving when I'm pushing it in first. Today, no noticeable difference in effort while pushing it in first with clutch in or out.

**Ixion** · 19th October 2008, 13:04

I am strongly thinking either primary drive failure, or maybe a broken crankshaft .

Looking at a fiche for that motor it looks like the starter clutch pinion is part of the primary drive !

You can check whether its engine or drive very simply (simply for me anyway).

On the left hand side engine cover, in the centre, is what looks like a honking big screw head .Right in the centre. Unscrew that (a car wheel nut brace will often have a big screwdriver end on it). Behind it is a big nut. Put a big spanner on the big nut and turn it. Or get your spouse/mate/boyfriend/girlfriend/goat who has a big spanner to do it. That will turn the crankshaft directly. If you feel the usual compression, oof, easier now, compression then that end of the crank is turning and the top end of the engine is OK. Now put the bike in gear. Turn nut again. If bike doesn't try to move forward, primary drive has failed (maybe transmission but unlikely) .

I'd have the primary drive cover off m'self. It can even be done by the roadside.

EDIT. Bloody safety switches. Is why I always disable them

EDITY EDIT: Once you have that big screw hgead thing removed, watch the nut while you hit the starter. If it doesn't turn, primary drive gone.

**Wolf** · 19th October 2008, 14:10

And the winners are:

all those who said "broken cam chain".

Everything's turning over but it seems the valve is open and no chain to shut it again - hence zero compression.

Shiny side up arrived just as I was about to try Ixion's diagnostics - we tried them, took the spark plug out and noted piston moving but no compression. Took valve cover off, no valve movement.

Took cam cover off, sprocket but no chain, SSU's trying to fish the chain out of the clutch now.

**Wolf** · 19th October 2008, 17:23

Thanks to Shiny side up and Motu, the XT is now running!

SSU, being significantly more ept than I am with engines, managed to pull the chain out and thanks to Motu, I had a perfectly good timing chain in the garage (from the old TT225 he gave me) so SSU put the new (it pretty much was new) timing chain in and the bike is now running fine.

I was expecting the work to be nothing more than an autopsy with a resultant list of things I needed to replace.

Neither SSU nor I expected the bike to be fixed today.

**KiwiRat** · 19th October 2008, 18:33

God bless KB eh.

With friends like these.....................................

**Bonez** · 19th October 2008, 18:40

Well done all.

**Shiny side up** · 19th October 2008, 18:45

Originally Posted by Wolf

Thanks to Shiny side up and Motu, the XT is now running!

But I was forced to make a blood sacrafice this time.

The technical of the problem for those who are interested. The cam chain was so worn that it formed a big smile when you held sideways by 2 ends. It appears to have had sufficent sideways play to step off over the sprocket. I thought it must be broken but when we (eventually - with a blood sacrafice) got the magneto flywheel off (or what ever you call the thing with magnets in it) the chain was unbroken. It was however sitting on the primary drive and efectively bypassing the clutch.

New quote for you.... It is amazing what you can do with a big hammer and a lot of care.

The job was done without dropping the oil out with the bike leaned over to about 45deg.

I wish the XJ was that easy to work on.

**Squiggles** · 19th October 2008, 20:07

So it escaped significant valve + piston damage, good stuff... how does the tensioner look?

**Wolf** · 19th October 2008, 20:17

Originally Posted by Squiggles

So it escaped significant valve + piston damage, good stuff... how does the tensioner look?

Tensioner's fine except a couple of scrapes from the falling chain. As I was just starting to take off neither the bike nor the revs were going fast enough for any real damage.

The engine no longer has the rattle I've been hearing for a while. I thought it might have been tappets in need of adjustment (told ya I'm a fuckin' idiot when it comes to engines) but in retrospect I'd guess it was the cam chain.

Last night when the bike stopped I was expecting to be bussing for a long time while saving up for a long list of needed parts.

I've still got to get some parts - new gasket and a bolt to replace the one that snapped (that's as traditional as the blood sacrifice), but at least I'm not up for major dollars and the bike will run.

Thanks to this afternoon, I'm also more aware of what's inside the engine and how to work on it.

Pluses all 'round.

Cheers to all for the advice, troubleshooting and instructions on how to get inside the engine without draining it first.