Biker fatality on SH16

**Highlander** · 10th May 2006, 20:33

Originally Posted by Edbear

This accident shows how careful we need to be on the roads. It's the unexpected that will get you! .

Yup, Wife and I snuck off to Matamata for lunch the other day since the kids were at school, coming back down the Tauranga side of the Kaimais spotted a dog walking up the road. Dark coloured dog, was in the shadow at the time. Hard braking avoided any issue but could have been a close thing.

**eliot-ness** · 10th May 2006, 20:56

Originally Posted by swanny

On this particular corner they have the large reflective arrows but little more

I always assume that, in the absence of a suggested speed, ie. 65ks, those arrows mean that the bend can be taken at the speed limit. 100ks. Not at any speed you care to attempt it at. I've ridden that particular curve regularly at around 100ks and never seen anything that might conceivably cause a problem. 140ks, if that is a reliable estimate, is a different issue and blame for the accident can't be put on bad signage, road surface, or short sighted car drivers.

**chickenfunkstar** · 10th May 2006, 21:01

Bugger. I ride that road quite ofter.

RIP matey

**Ixion** · 10th May 2006, 21:25

Ah, now I know where it is.

I agree with Mr Eliot Ness. I don't think I would chance 140 along there. Nver have yet , anyway, 120 maybe. Though, maybe. Dunno, pushing it I think, it's quite a busy road nowdays and I think at 140 you'd be outriding your visibility. Can't say it was absurd though.(Incidentally, how does anyone know he was doing 140kph?)

It's always easy to decide what a rider should have done in hindsight.

I guess he came round the bend fast, suddenly saw an almost stationary vehicle on front of him, glanced right thinking to swerve, saw two bikes coming toward him, oh shit don't want bike on bike, went for the brakes , overcooked it, and the rest is history.

Similar thing almost happened to me on the Riverhead road on Sunday, though not quite at that speed (not so much less though). Chasing behind a bike that I'd encountered, he overtook a cage, I swung out to do the same , as I did so a couple of bikes came round the next corner coming toward me, going fast, close enough that I had to change my mind. I pulled back and braked, but the decision is an instant thing. You don't have time to think, it has to be instinct . Brake? Pull back? Gun it for the gap? Try to split it? All valid options, you only have a split second to choose. Sometimes we get the choice wrong and when we do the results can be very nasty.

Poor sod made the wrong call. Maybe if he hadn't lost the front, who can say.

Always got to think "what could be ahead". I have to say, that I consider excessive speed through blind corners and over blind hilltops to be the biggest single bad habit of NZ bikers. You just never can tell when there will be something round that bend.

RIP, brother.

**Skyryder** · 10th May 2006, 21:30

At 140 K's you are over the edge. There's fuck all time to get back.

RIP Honda. There are no speed limits in the sky.

Skyryder

**paturoa** · 10th May 2006, 21:51

Where did the 140k bit come from?? from the estimate of the 2nd trumpy rider goign in the other direction.

Don't know about you lot but i'd be shite at estimating the speed of a bike going in the other direction in that scenario.

**Finn** · 10th May 2006, 23:09

Originally Posted by Skyryder

At 140 K's you are over the edge. There's fuck all time to get back.

RIP Honda. There are no speed limits in the sky.

Skyryder

Speed is relative. 140 is nothing if the conditions / road are okay. I've driven on the autobahn at speeds of up to 280 and it's perfectly safe. Of course there's no kiwi's there or third world roads. Many european highways are 120+ and in Sweden GET THIS, the transport agency are trying to increase it on some road becasue they realise cars are a lot safer now, the roads are good and they want to improve travel time. Well fuck me.

Man and machine will occasionally fuck up. No laws (apart from physics) will ever change this.

**Lou Girardin** · 11th May 2006, 08:22

Originally Posted by swanny

I took three photos to illustrate where the accident occured, or at least where I can presume the accident occured. This is based off what news reports and Pixie has suggested in previous posts.

Wrong corner. It was further up the hill.

Don't forget people, that 140 is the estimate of people inexperienced in estimating speed and shocked at what they saw/were involved in.
If the car the was struck was doing say, 50 km/h, that would make even 110 by the bike look fast.
Cars pulling out at intersections/driveways also have an obligation to accelerate to normal traffic speed quickly, you can't just bumble along at whatever you feel like.
On the face of it, if I were investiagting this I'd be looking hard at the car driver.

**Indoo** · 11th May 2006, 10:35

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

Wrong corner. It was further up the hill.

Don't forget people, that 140 is the estimate of people inexperienced in estimating speed and shocked at what they saw/were involved in.
If the car the was struck was doing say, 50 km/h, that would make even 110 by the bike look fast.
Cars pulling out at intersections/driveways also have an obligation to accelerate to normal traffic speed quickly, you can't just bumble along at whatever you feel like.
On the face of it, if I were investiagting this I'd be looking hard at the car driver.

The scu will be looking hard at everyone and everything. I don't think you can instantly point blaim at the car in this case though judging by the circumstances. People don't have any obligation to accelerate 'quickly' to reach normal traffic speed, good drivers will but thats a minority in N.Z.

Drivers/riders do however have to be able to stop in the length of lane visible.

**Ixion** · 11th May 2006, 10:45

The car was said to "be as far left as possible". Perhaps the driver had come out of the driveway , started down the road, and pulled over and stopped or was about to stop? Which is perfectly legal. Done it myself - "Did I forget to bring x , I'll just pull over and check"

I'm not aware of any law that requires you to accelerate quickly after a turn , other than the rule about merging safely, which doesn't apply here. Obviously a good idea of course. But as far as I know there is no law against "bumbling along". Slow traffic has a right to be there so long as they do not unnecessarily impede others. From the sound of the "far left" the driver was not unnecessarily impeding. What if the car had actually been stopped? That's as slow as you can get, and quite legal, assuming there are no restrictions on parking?

Stopped vehicles, slow vehicles, vehicles turning are all hazards that must always be expected on the roads. One must always assume that round every corner , over every hill, is such a hazard, and proceed appropriately.

**SwanTiger** · 11th May 2006, 11:16

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

Wrong corner. It was further up the hill.

Fuck.

So it was BEFORE the Kanohi Road intersection and not AFTER?

**Marknz** · 11th May 2006, 11:21

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

That clarify's it a bit. A cage mostly at fault. Yet again.
She would've had 100 to 150 metres vis in the Hondas direction before she pulled out.
Still, our lives are cheap really. Not worth having a second look.

What a crock of shit!

If the VFR was doing 140, and he didn't have the skills to save it then it is his fault and no one elses. Why the fuck do we always look to blame car drivers for our accidents and fatalities instead of looking at ourselves first. No feckin wonder the LTSA are after our arses.

**Pixie** · 11th May 2006, 11:28

The bikes came to rest in the north going lane by a driveway,just out of the left frame of pic #1
I can't determine if you have the driveway the car came out of in any of the other pics,but it was the first drive you come to in the south going lane.

Once again I must reiterate that the car did not just come out of the drive, it was already on the road and slowly accelerating

Another thing to watch for on these particular corners is frequent trails of diesel left by trucks or SUV's

**Pixie** · 11th May 2006, 11:32

Originally Posted by swanny

There is plenty of room for a car to overtake as the shoulder so about 3,4 lane width. Meaning that if the car really was hard left, he would of had enough room to whizz past.

I don't know where you saw this.
Where the accident occured there are no shoulders,just ditches of varying depths