Uh-oh, this is bad, Andy is watching us, lads.

[Dafe]

Is there anything bad that the labour govenment hasn't caused yet Dafe? It's ok to be bitter.

I ain't blaming them for the shit weekend weather!

I only blame them for promoting so many benefits, and importing so much non skilled immigrants and multiple refugees which results in you and I working harder and for less my friend!

Sounds like you and I are the suckers, not the 600 skilled kiwis leaving for Aussie every week! (and when they're being replaced by beneficiaries, It doesn't provide for alot of hope for a recovering future).

[Paul in NZ]

Is there anything bad that the labour govenment hasn't caused yet Dafe? It's ok to be bitter.

Good damn gubbermint caused Dafe' to be bitter as well eh? Dammit..

[MikeyG]

I want to know exactly how many of the motorcycle fatalities occur on the road. Are all the accidents on farm bikes counted as motorcycle fatalities? A lot of the farm accidents are kids too young to get a license that aren't getting helmets.

Also are accidents by non-licensed riders part of the road toll? I don't have NZ numbers but in Australia (from Two Wheels Magazine) of the accidents that are the fault of a rider 70something% were riders with no license or who had lost their licenses.

How is rider training going to stop rider fatalities when over 80% of motorcyce accidents are the fault of a car driver?

[Ixion]

Do you have a figure for that 80%? I've seen numbers like that thrown around, but never an authorative source. 80% sounds MUCH too high to me, even for multivehicle accidents .

We like to crack on that we're the shitz and if we crash it's always some cagers fault, but I'm not convinced that is the reality.

I know from my own experience of near crashes (don't have any actual crashes to consider) that it's been my own fault most of the time. Admittedly, sometimes "own fault" in the sense of not driving defensively enough.

And seldom is a multi vehicle crash all the fault of one only of the vehicles. Almost always the other vehicle has some part of the responsibility too.

End of the day, it's my job to keep out of trouble. If some prat in a cage manages to hit me, means I wasn't being defensive enough, not doing my job. Most always, maybe some exceptions. but I doubt 80%

[Lou Girardin]

Andy Knackersoff is just a front man, talking head, PR hack. He says what's on the script. I'd be very suprised if he has any policy input at all.
In my experience of LTNZ, those that do are less than telegenic and would bore a sloth to death.

[Ixion]

True, but has someone given him a new script ?

And who is this Kirk fella?

[Motu]

How is rider training going to stop rider fatalities when over 80% of motorcyce accidents are the fault of a car driver?

By showing them that 80% of motorcycle accidents aren't the fault of the car driver? Advanced rider training will cover this aspect - it's in your hands as to whether you become a statistic.I've had a few accidents involving cars - 100% could of been avoided on my part....Don't let Allan Kirk hear you talking like that,you'd be booted out of class.

[Blackbird]

And who is this Kirk fella?

Allen Kirk runs NZ Motorcycle safety consultants. Has a website od same or similar name.

[Drunken Monkey]

Statistics here:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...6120#post66120

The figure is closer to 60%, not 80%.

[Motu]

That's great if you want to blame someone else.

[Big Dave]

That's great if you want to blame someone else.

I blame you.

[madboy]

Had anybody ever given any consideration as to how one can go about changing the LTNZ attitude/view to road safety in general?

We all wank on about cops who enforce what is, at the end of the day, a decision probably made by the LTNZ. And then we wank on about what bollocks the LTNZ's attempts at brainwashing are. But has anyone ever thought what can be done about it?

An organisation, any organisation, is run by people. People. Those people may have minions toiling away from them, but you usually find a select few people are the ones who determine the culture of the organisation - the minions just do what they're told. Andy K might be a puppet, but who's hand is up his ass?

So my theory follows then that if we're really displeased about this perhaps someone here could get a senior job with LTNZ to start CHANGING the organisation.

Bags not. I'd never be able to hold a straight face through any of the strategic planning meetings.

[Ixion]

Statistics here:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...6120#post66120

The figure is closer to 60%, not 80%.

Thanks for that. Those are European figures. but, not sure if theyw ould be applicable to NZ. And the 60% is the percentage of bike accidents where a car was involved. And only 50% of that 60% was the car to blame. ie at most we can blame cages for 30% of our crashes.

Interestingly also

The low involvement of riders between 41 and 55 years of age suggested they may have a lower risk of being involved in an accident.

[Jantar]

Do you have a figure for that 80%? I've seen numbers like that thrown around, but never an authorative source. 80% sounds MUCH too high to me, even for multivehicle accidents .

Back in the late 1970's my old NZACU competition licence used to have this printed on it. It was based on a study in Britain carried out in the late 1960's (so already a decade out of date back then) and only looked at multivehicle accidents where injury or death was involved.

And seldom is a multi vehicle crash all the fault of one only of the vehicles. Almost always the other vehicle has some part of the responsibility too.

There are so many variables in accidents that I don't believe any statistical analysis can be used to assign causes. Naturally, cars cannot normally be blamed when a rider simply runs off the road, or hits a stationary obstacle, and in many two vehicle accidents the rider may have been able to do more to avoid it.

Most accidents have many causes. There is usaully a primary cause; eg the car failed to give way, and a secondary cause which may explain the primary cause; eg The driver didn't see the bike, but there may be addidtional causes too ; eg the motorcyclist saw the car and assumed that the car would give way. But in any claim (like 80% of accidents are caused by car drivers) we are normally only looking at the primary cause.

[Hitcher]

There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

One thing that irritates me more than a bit is an obsession with road deaths. Drownings and, believe it or not, food poisoning each contribute about as many dead folks each year to New Zealand. Add to that winter colds and flu, cancer, coronary diseases and tobacco and I'm surprised there are any of us left.

Road accidents involving injury? Different story. Rehabilitating accident victims is expensive. But so too is treating (non-fatal) coronary and cancer patients.

We need to ask ourselves some hard questions about how we care for each other, in the first instance, before we get paranoid about the evils of internal combustion-powered modes of transport.