Target Fixation

[oldrider]

Target fixation is real. Look to where you want to ride, bla, bla, bla but given kiwi's have trouble changing gears, how are you ever going to teach them anything about target fixation I ask you???

Just show them a bus! Seemed to work for that one.

[Finn]

By starting with the very next training group - over time old farts like yourself who know nothing about the subject will have passed out of the active system into greener pastures....but you will be remembered by a white cross on your favorite piece of road....and the grill of the car you hit.

The only time I use target fixation is when I'm in boobie bars. I'm not old, I just smell a bit funny.

[Quasievil]

I made it in 1:37 in the car.

Arh yeah in a Porsche

[Edbear]

how are you ever going to teach them anything about target fixation I ask you???

MAny people will believe anything they see on TV... Maybe the highly respected LTSA could do a few ads...?

[Lou Girardin]

Sorry, but I don't have any sympathy. No condolences either, it could have been someone I cared about that he took out. Stuff him.
He had a way out and didn't take it. Not to mention overtaking like Allah was going to protect him.
The best bit was that he hit something big and didn't take anyone other than his passengers with him.

[jonbuoy]

I think you tend to have more moments of "flight or fight" going on in your head on a bike than driving a car. I think this is why motorcyclist are more aware of this than car drivers, and should be more aware and able to snap out of it and start thinking again, instead of turning into a passenger for those last vital few seconds.

[Edbear]

Sorry, but I don't have any sympathy. No condolences either, it could have been someone I cared about that he took out. Stuff him.
He had a way out and didn't take it. Not to mention overtaking like Allah was going to protect him.
The best bit was that he hit something big and didn't take anyone other than his passengers with him.

Ouch, Lou! Bit harsh, mate. The kid was only 16, lacked judgement and froze in an emergency. Glad I wasn't one of the passengers! This sort of scenario goes through your mind when teaching your kids to drive and you still find yourself worrying about them even after they've been driving for a few years - have they developed the necessary skills to take evasive action? I can remember having quick reflexes enabling me to avoid a few nasty situations when I was a youngun, but many people are not "natural drivers" and need time to develop the necessary skills. This sounds like a very sad situation and one wonders what the fully licenced front passenger was saying or doing to try to save themselves.

[ManDownUnder]

Sorry, but I don't have any sympathy. No condolences either, it could have been someone I cared about that he took out. Stuff him.
He had a way out and didn't take it. Not to mention overtaking like Allah was going to protect him.
The best bit was that he hit something big and didn't take anyone other than his passengers with him.

Yeah - I'll bite...

1) The kid made a mistake. I've done it too - so who am I to criticise him?
2) Target fixation isn't a choice - it's a very common phenominon overcome with a little training... which isn't provided (or even recommended from what I can see) by the state, or instructors of the average road code type training. If he knew he had a way out he would have chosen it. Going by the coroners resport, he didn't, he froze
3) He did take something with him. There were two innocents in the car, and I'm willing to bet the bus driver has nightmares aboiut this for a long time to come.

You're right - that could have been your family, or my family exposed to risk by his driving, and that's seomthing I'm happy to hold him accountable for, but to offer no sympathy or condolences to him or his family?

That sounds like the actions of a man with a grudge...

RIP to all involved, and my sympathy to the bus driver

[terbang]

Its a real human factor allright. You see it a lot in aviation and it can be put to good use as well in some instances.
Where you look you will go and if you don't continue scanning your picture (whats coming at yer through yer eyes) then you will impact right where you are looking. Teaching student pilots to land is a classic they pick a point on the runway and if they fixate on it too much then that is where the nosewheel ends up followed by much porpoising and nervous intervention by the instructor. Similar problem when we learnt low level night ops which can end up in an ugly scene particularily over water at night with a single light on the surface..
The trick is to train your eyes to continually scan what is up ahead, to look further ahead and rely on your peripheral vision for a lot of cues. It can be learned (and must be as planes don't allways crash on landing). I saw a mention of this recently on another thread (think it was Goblin) that had had an experience with fixation on a rock or something. I think we all experience it on our bikes a lot more than we realise. I personally have found that in LH corners and with an, opposite direction, Cage suddenly coming into view I have run a bit wide towards it because I have probably taken too longer look at it.

[pritch]

Sorry, but I don't have any sympathy. No condolences either, it could have been someone I cared about that he took out. Stuff him.

Sorry folks, but I'm with Lou.

There is a whole industry in most of the Western world making excuses for why people stuff up. Psychologists, criminologists, social workers, counsellors, all basically dedicated to dreaming up excuses for what amounts to basic human failings like greed, anger, or stupidity. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

In this case Darwin had his way, and I'd go further than Lou and say if this guy and his passengers died before they had a chance to breed yet more idiots, that's a bonus.

I must be getting old and grumpy...

[Motu]

I saw a sad case of target steering a few years ago at a trolley derby - there was a corner on the hill and one kid lost it there,he saved it and took off down a side street used as a safety road.The crowd cheered his good work - but I was directly behind him on the otherside of the corner and could see what was going down....the kid was target steering on a parked car and had frozen at the controls.There was no way I could jump the barrier or warn people on the otherside of the road,and we all watched as he went under the car.The people closer may not of known about target steering,and possibly too close to see the bigger picture I could.The youngster saved it and lost it at the same time....

[jonbuoy]

Sorry folks, but I'm with Lou.

There is a whole industry in most of the Western world making excuses for why people stuff up. Psychologists, criminologists, social workers, counsellors, all basically dedicated to dreaming up excuses for what amounts to basic human failings like greed, anger, or stupidity. Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

In this case Darwin had his way, and I'd go further than Lou and say if this guy and his passengers died before they had a chance to breed yet more idiots, that's a bonus.

I must be getting old and grumpy...

Yup he stuffed up by fixating on the danger not an escape route - he could have taken evasive action but he didn't. No ones making excuses, it something that happens to everyone.

[Ixion]

I think we all experience it on our bikes a lot more than we realise. I personally have found that in LH corners and with a, opposite direction, Cage suddenly coming into view I have run a bit wide towards it because I have probably taken too longer look at it.

Yes, I have that happen too. Sometimes I have to deliberately pull my eyes away. In time you get to recognise it's happening.

I find that a long blink helps, sort of breaks the fixation. And while blinking roll your eyes so when you open them you are no longer looking direct at the target. Hard to blink at such moments though.

This is one of those things that only comes with experience. It can't really be taught, though instructors/mentors can help by pointing it out.

[terbang]

In this case Darwin had his way, and I'd go further than Lou and say if this guy and his passengers died before they had a chance to breed yet more idiots, that's a bonus.

Fixation is real and needs to be included in any training syllabus. Are drivers made aware of this problem at learner level..? So is death a suitable punishment for ignorance on whose behalf, the driver or the regulator..?

I must be getting old and grumpy...

Yup and I also think the necks also gettin a bit redder with time..

[jonbuoy]

Skidding straight into the back of a car instead letting go the break lever and passing on either side of the car.

Staring at loose seal or a pot hole and riding straight over it instead of around it.

All target fixation.