Challenge to Transit re mway bus lanes...

[matdebat]

so how is a bus on a bus lane more dangerous than a 40 tonne truck on the motorway surrounded by cars and other trucks?

I ride on the esmonde rd bus lane everyday and its usually empty, although I don't have any problems with allowing buses getting to thier destination quicker its a horrible waste of space using bus lanes to achieve that.

[Skyryder]

Still have to be safer than lane splitting on the freeway?

Well that's debatable. Like most accidents speed 'can' be realitive to the seriousnes of the injury. So too can weight.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

so how is a bus on a bus lane more dangerous than a 40 tonne truck on the motorway surrounded by cars and other trucks?

The bus has a free lane all to himself. He's not looking for vehicles that should not be in his lane.

The truck driver is. That's the difference.

Like I said in an earlier post, get a P class licence and you will have some idea of just how dangerouse busses and large vehicles can be to bikers.

It's a bit like cage drivers who do not ride. They have no idea of the problems that they can cause bikers. Some bikers have this same attitude to busses. They think they are cages. They are not. I've driven busses. I ride a bike. Trust me on this one I do happen to know what I'm on about.


Skyryder

[klingon]

The bus has a free lane all to himself. He's not looking for vehicles that should not be in his lane.

The truck driver is. That's the difference.

Like I said in an earlier post, get a P class licence and you will have some idea of just how dangerouse busses and large vehicles can be to bikers.

It's a bit like cage drivers who do not ride. They have no idea of the problems that they can cause bikers. Some bikers have this same attitude to busses. They think they are cages. They are not. I've driven busses. I ride a bike. Trust me on this one I do happen to know what I'm on about.


Skyryder

Never having driven a bus, I won't even try to argue this point!

But I think it's one thing to not have motorbikes on motorway bus lanes and quite a different thing to ban them from suburban bus lanes. It seems to work ok on Mt Albert, Sandringham, Dominion, Mt Eden Roads... why cant it work here?

[Skyryder]

Never having driven a bus, I won't even try to argue this point!

But I think it's one thing to not have motorbikes on motorway bus lanes and quite a different thing to ban them from suburban bus lanes. It seems to work ok on Mt Albert, Sandringham, Dominion, Mt Eden Roads... why cant it work here?

I''m not familier with the roads quoted so can not answer. Bottom line on this is the neither the Government, Land Transit or LTNZ are going to change the rules of bus lanes. For those of you who think emails, bike protests, or writing to your MP is going to make one iota of difference then think again. You are flogging a dead horse. It's not going to get up let alone win the race. Now I'm not being a smart arse here it's just that it'a a wast of time and effort trying to change something that's not only dead but well and truly buried.

Skyryder

[Ixion]

But then the same defeatist position could, I'm sure , be put forward about any bureaucratic imposition.

If you fight , you may lose. If you DON'T fight you will CERTAINLY lose.

And even a lost fight may not be in vain. For one thing , such a battle, even if lost leaves us no worse off. And the battle itself hardens the troops and improves morale. And a hard fought fight forces respect from the enemy, they will hesitate longer before bringing out the next imposition. And every battle that does not destroy you makes you stronger.

In the 90s motorcyclists meekly rolled over every time the government wanted to shaft them. The results of such supinity we see today, they do not recommend the tactic.

[Skyryder]

But then the same defeatist position could, I'm sure , be put forward about any bureaucratic imposition.

If you fight , you may lose. If you DON'T fight you will CERTAINLY lose.

And even a lost fight may not be in vain. For one thing , such a battle, even if lost leaves us no worse off. And the battle itself hardens the troops and improves morale. And a hard fought fight forces respect from the enemy, they will hesitate longer before bringing out the next imposition. And every battle that does not destroy you makes you stronger.

In the 90s motorcyclists meekly rolled over every time the government wanted to shaft them. The results of such supinity we see today, they do not recommend the tactic.

That is true Ixion but the secret in winning is to know what ones that can be won. This one can not. Not in the present climate anyway.

Given the Government's and for that matter local body councils commitment in improving the public transport system, neither they, LTNZ of Transit NZ are likely to shift their position. Now you may not agree with their logic but a few posts back, I think it was a reply from LTNZ which said something to effect if they allowed bike in bus lanes why not taxis, courers etc. Their current position makes it patenly clear that they will never have to justify to any other road user why they have allowed bikes to use bus lanes. It is only when you get into the oppositions mindset can you understand your own objectives, and obtaining them, with any clarity. This ones a no go. If you want a winnable issue go after the Instant Loss Of Licence. At present no one has made an issue of this. This blatent infringment of the publics rights, has been created soley for the purpose acheiving the Governments policy in respect to their Road Safety 2101 policy.

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/lts...03/031013.html

"Last year we took the first steps to reduce the road toll, by setting a goal of no more than 300 fatalities and 4,500 hospitalisations by 2010."

Now no one is going to dispute the goals of this document. But when basic justice is dispensed by traffic enforcement officers who are both judge and jury then the methods need to be questioned.

As I have mentioned in other posts this is winnable and given the right sort of promotian is tailor made for the biker fraternity to show some clout. This issue affects all road users not just bikers, but we all know how easy it is to get into the Instant Loss territory. The upside of this Ixion is that with a win under the belt it may be possible to move onto the bus lane issue. As things now stand the buslane thing is headbanger terriortory only for masochists.


Skyryder

[rok-the-boat]

If Transit says the road surface is dangerous for bikes, then maybe this could be approached by trying to ban busses from emergency lanes. Afterall, Transit says they are unsafe right!

The only way forward is to get hundreds and hundreds of more people on scooters and bikes - a democratic approach. And maybe give a few freebies to the road-nerds at Transit. Get them on bikes and see them change.

[matdebat]

we seem to be forgetting that the law currently states that motorcycles are allowed to use buslanes. The Esmonde Rd Bus lane runs starts well back from the motorway and runs right along side the normal on ramp and dumps you on the motorway. It has 7 signs saying "Bus Lane" which according to the various bits of legislation on the LTSA website, motorcyclists are allowed to use.

When they finish the new bus/transit lanes or what ever they call them and decide to put up signs saying "motorcyclists not allowed" then I'll happily not use them.

My concern is that having been stopped 3 times I have produced the legislation to the cop and have yet to receive a ticket. They have claimed to not know much about the issue and have simply been told stop motorcyclists using buslanes. They are free to continue doing this but it gets a bit tedius getting pulled over all the time.

[TriumphSteve]

With bikes not being able to use the Bus lanes and Transit lanes on the motorway. The issue is that Transit is going against the spirit of the law and good government.

The road laws are supposed to apply nationally on all roads and are approved by Parliament.

The Transit Bylaws are created by Transit, they are published in the Gazette. Note they are not even published on the Transit web site with the the road rules. If Transit does not like a road rule then it can create a Bylaw to negate the intention of the road rules.

There is possible a case for the Ombusbman to investigate the difference between the the 2 set of laws.
Regretably you can be prosecuted for being in them, if the police so decide.

Complaints to your MP may be more successful if one points out the inconsistency of the bylaw by Transit with the Road Rules approved by Parliament.