Could the lack of discipline be the problem?

[Big Dave]

Viva jim2!

[Ixion]

Unfortunately, those without kids have to live in the same society as the results of the parenting failures. Which I think does give them the right to comment on those failures.

However, one need only look at the commendable attitude and behaviour of the younger members of this forum to be aware that failure is by no means universal.

Or consider the many young people one sees working (for abysmally poor wages) in shops, the warehouse etc. and the excellent attitude and work ethic they demonstrate.

By and large I think the young folk today are as respectful and polite as any of my generation were at their age, perhaps more so, and the youth of today is certainly more "mature" (though I hate that word) .

In every generation the old fogies are convinced that the youth of their day are a bad lot.

I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on
frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond
words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and
respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly
[disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"

So lamented Hesiod in the 8th century BC. And I guess its been downhill for the last 3000 years? Gosh young people must have been wonderful indeed in Hesiod's youth.

And if we're talking lack of respect I can think of a good many old farts that I have encountered who were most notably lacking in respect or manners.

Still though, youth is wasted on the young.

[Big Dave]

im on the Hamilton City Youth Council
and i help out with a youth-group too, hi school kids
grass roots is where the grass grows, its good to get in there, i did it because i aint one to bitch.
its real good once you get in to it.

Respect - I ran my local YMCA for 5 years. I honestly believe i solved a lot of the local racial issues with the basketball court (salt & pepper teams!), guided a lot of kids and taught them about fair play and values. Most rewarding.

[carver]

Respect - I ran my local YMCA for 5 years. I honestly believe i solved a lot of the local racial issues with the basketball court (salt & pepper teams!), guided a lot of kids and taught them about fair play and values. Most rewarding.

sure is, mant ppl come to me (im the media rep) and see youth as "kids on the streets"
once you get in there they aint that bad, most of em are just seeking a identity, like HxC said.
i get along with most of em, ya got to try not be like a teacher to em, more like a friend, and although most of them act dumb, they all have some sense of right and wrong, and know what they are doing, and where they are heading.
its hard at 1st, but things get better, i also like to help new guys like zero index, get into riding, i have taught 2 people how to ride this year, one of them is getting good now.
"there is more in giving than in bitching"

[SARGE]

Did he let you get totally wasted though? The odd drink here and there to show "you" that he is giving you the lee-way (sp) to be trusted, giving you that "inch" so to speak is not a problem. I'm talking in the sense of parents sitting there and letting thier kid get so drunk they get sick at the end of the night and end up with a major hang-over the next day... and worse the kid thinks "this is just so cool".

he busted me out in the barn with a bottle of whiskey..i was 12.. we sat there together and polished off that whole bottle...

i never did that again..

[Big Dave]

sure is, mant ppl come to me (im the media rep) and see youth as "kids on the streets"
once you get in there they aint that bad, most of em are just seeking a identity, like HxC said.
i get along with most of em, ya got to try not be like a teacher to em, more like a friend, and although most of them act dumb, they all have some sense of right and wrong, and know what they are doing, and where they are heading.
its hard at 1st, but things get better, i also like to help new guys like zero index, get into riding, i have taught 2 people how to ride this year, one of them is getting good now.
"there is more in giving than in bitching"

So true - I also found a reverse two handed dunk got their attention.

I was interested in all that talk about Willy Mason joining the AB's - he's one of my boys from those days. Thanked me personally when he got his Kangaroos jersey. Made all those after hours worth it in one sentence.

[Big Dave]

"there is more in giving than in bitching"

Unless you are Finn of course.

[The Stranger:Me]

However, one need only look at the commendable attitude and behaviour of the younger members of this forum to be aware that failure is by no means universal.

Hear hear.

[James Deuce]

Unfortunately, those without kids have to live in the same society as the results of the parenting failures. Which I think does give them the right to comment on those failures.

It's not unfortunate at all. I just wish the childless, by choice, by cruel twist of fate, through being young and carefree, whatever, would see themselves as part of the solution, instead of hurling abuse and criticism.

When I thought we were going to be childless, I taught drums and didn't charge much, I took percussion classes at kindergartens, anything I could do to contribute and help be part of society in general. I see ivory tower inhabitants passing judgement with no intention of participating in the "solution" themselves.

[Big Dave]

Hear hear.

If i am talking to noel - If they all turned out like your girl the world would be a better place.

[terbang]

NZ is still a merging nation of immigrants and is yet to find the true measure of what a NZer is all about. There will allways be swings to and fro in social behaviour and class while the balance is being sought. One only needs to take a look at the near extinction of the Maori culture to its renaissance of today as an example of change. This change may not suit some but it will ultimatly benefit us all. We are a nation of immigrants and indigenous people and it is my observation that the true impact (worth) of immigration is in the second generation. We are not European, Asian, Polynesian or South african rather we are becoming uniqely New Zealand. I too have teenage children and my wife is English (she sees NZ through, sometimes critical, Pommy eyes). My children have had the benefit of travel and being schooled on a more global nature which has given them things like language and awareness of peoples identity and it has also made them proud to be what they are, New Zealanders hence why I brought them back here for ther latter school years.. Like all shithead teenagers they have their moments, like we all did but there is a lot of positives in them, and also in their friends that I meet and I am sure this will play some part in the future shape of NZ. As Big Dave points out it is a case of putting effort into the country which can range from running a YMCA or to just plain old parenting rather than sitting around moaning about it.
Talk the talk and also Walk the Walk..

[Big Dave]

I taught drums and didn't charge much, I took percussion classes at kindergartens,

THERE ARE PARENTS IN INSANE WARDS BECAUSE OF YOU.

[James Deuce]

THERE ARE PARENTS IN INSANE WARDS BECAUSE OF YOU.

They needed to be there. It's a social responsibility taken seriously, and carried out to the bitter end. Besides if kids are going to hit things, doing it with rhythm and panache is better than a spastic cacophany.

[Str8 Jacket]

They needed to be there. It's a social responsibility taken seriously, and carried out to the bitter end. Besides if kids are going to hit things, doing it with rhythm and panache is better than a spastic cacophany.

I ALWAYS wanted to learn to play the drums when I was a kid, my old man is a music teacher... Anyway I was told that "girls" dont play the drums and I was made to learn the violin and piano neither of which I can play now. Its obviously my fathers fault that I am such an angry person now. Thanks Jim!

[James Deuce]

I ALWAYS wanted to learn to play the drums when I was a kid, my old man is a music teacher... Anyway I was told that "girls" dont play the drums and I was made to learn the violin and piano neither of which I can play now. Its obviously my fathers fault that I am such an angry person now. Thanks Jim!

What's stopping you now? Nothing. There are heaps of chicks playing drums for a living, from the Sublime Cindy Blackman to the Ridiculous Meg White, so there's nothing to stop you taking it up. I have a mate who is a superb teacher if you are interested.