Bus Lane Bullshit

[Bevel]

From Clive Fuhr Clive of Transit NZ In responce to my email 21/06/2006 9:29 p.m. (see below) Fuhr@transit.govt.nz

I am currently receiving a number of articles about motorcycle access to motorway 'buslanes'. The publication of a letter and the associated comments perhaps explains this.
Firstly there is an important distinction to be made between the use of the existing emergency stopping shoulders, that buses use in the peak travel times, and use of the Northern Busway which is under construction.
The motorway 'shoulders' are not road carriageway, and buses are only permitted to use them a lower speeds when the motorway is congested. The motorway shoulders are the refuge for broken down/disabled vehicles and there are many reasons why it should not be regarded as an additional vehicle lane - whether that is for bikes or any other vehicles.
As for the future Busway -it is exactly that- a road for buses. There is the possibility of some limited use by 'high occupancy' (3+) vehicles but this will only be in the am peak. Strict speed controls will be in place and there will be no overtaking. Because the Busway is a road in terms of its physical construction there are many groups arguing for access, including motorcyclists, pedal cyclists, taxis, taxi vans and shuttles and non-scheduled buses. If all such uses were accommodated the Busway will lose its primary function - that of enabling buses to form part of the regions 'rapid transit' network.
In a sense it can be compared to seeking access to drive along the railway tracks in a four wheel drive or on a trail bike -it may be technically possible but it is certainly not desirable in terms of maintaining passenger transport corridors that can offer regular and reliable services. This is really a policy isue that has safety considerations to be taken into account.
Thank you for the invitation to ride on your bike. I grew up on the pillion of a Vincent Black Shadow and know the delights and dangers of motorcycling. I would not in any way deny the value of motorcycles for personal travel. Perhaps their role in the transport system needs further debate at a strategic level.
I hope this assists.
Clive Fuhr

>>> 21/06/2006 9:29 p.m. >>>

Dear Clive
I am writing in response to a letter that written by you that was published on the Kiwibiker forum. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...179#post657179 Please read this thread. It is an interesting debate.
I have heard various concerns about biker safety re surface conditions, different surface heights and merging traffic. None of these Transit NZ safety concerns are as threatening as other road users. I'll take my chances on the bus lane any day as my biggest concern is always mixing it up at close quarters with the driving public and there are less of them on a busway. remember cars kill more motorcyclist than anything else!
I know you are concerned with bus movement but I can assure you there are not enough buses or motorcyclist to create a congestion issue. You could always review the situation in 10 years time to see if it has changed but right now a bus lane is fairly empty and there are not that many motorcyclist on the road.
Yes your right motorcyclist had their chance to lobby and they didn't but that doesn't make their case wrong. A please keep an open mind on the issue and let's see if there is solution to the problem.
I would like to invite you on a ride with me on the back of my Ducati Monster motorbike through rush hour traffic on the motorway and then on a bus lane so you can experience first hand the situations.
Best regards

[Drum]

Clive makes a good point there. Why are we more deserving of using the busway than other road user groups?

[jord]

fuck transit. i havnt read this forum fully yet but by law you are allowed as stated in the motorcycle roadcode.

[Zapf]

Clive makes a good point there. Why are we more deserving of using the busway than other road user groups?

The truth is thou that I can't see motorcycles congesting up the busway.... we all tend to stay away from those buses as far as we can anyway.... only thing is they need to keep the 50cc scooters and choppers off that.

[Drum]

.............. only thing is they need to keep the 50cc scooters and choppers off that.

But that would be almost impossible to administrate and enforce. It would be as stupid as making just some dogs be micro-chipped. Oh. Hang on.

I also dont believe that bikes would congest the motorway bus lane, but we need to remember what the bus lane is for. It is to make bus travel times shorter, thereby encouraging more cagers to catch the bus. The benefit for us is the reduced number of cars on the road (if that eventuates).

If we get to use the lanes, then as Clive says - what about cyclists, taxi's couriers or whoever else gets jealous?

Not to mention that it would be dangerous for both bikers and other users when passing through the bus stations - or merging back into the inside lane just before the station.

Can't people see that its not as simple as just saying "motorbikes can use bus lanes".

[Drum]

fuck transit. i havnt read this forum fully yet but by law you are allowed as stated in the motorcycle roadcode.

Wrong. Read the thread mate.

[Ixion]

Clive makes a good point there. Why are we more deserving of using the busway than other road user groups?

OK. Lets ask, "why should the tax payer , at enormous expense, pay to reduce the travel time of a certain group of commuters ?"

Answer: because that class of commuter is considered to be commuting in a socially responsible way. Public transport (subsidised by the tax payer I may add), is an efficient utilisation of roading funds , measured as dollars spent on roading, per passenger journey. One million dollars, it is argued, spent on roads for public transport, moves more people than one million dollars spent on roading for cars .Therefore roading for public transpoort is a Good Thing and should be encouraged.

With me so far ? (and I'm open to hearing any OTHER reason why my tax dollars should be spent on building a busway)

But: exactly the same argument is applicable to motorcycles. In fact, despite Mr Fuhrs self serving fibs, we would be MORE efficient than buses. So it would actually be possible to construct a sound argument for Transit actually building special motorcycle lanes (they have cycle lanes after all. I suggested this at the last BRONZ meeting, but no-one was keen)

As they are not funding motorcycle-ways, it is still publically efficient to encourage motorcycle use , for exactly the same reasons as it is publiclly efficient to encourage bus use.

Other road user groups are not efficient. We are.

(The argument about cyclists and mopeds is irrelevant. They are already forbidden on motorways, and the police seem to have little problem enforcing it. Red herring)

[Jantar]

Wrong. Read the thread mate.

Sorry Drum, Its you who are wrong. The specifically allows motorcycles to use bus lanes. The exception is where motorcycles are SPCIFICALLY prohibited by signage. Motorcycles are not specifically prohibited from the bus lanes in question.

[Drum]

Are you suggesting that bikers are socially responsible Ixion?

We are talking about specifically about the north shore busway here (as that is the only busway project Clive is involved in to my knowledge.

In this particular case I would argue that it is a better use of taxpayer dollars to build a busway than a regular traffic lane. My reason is because of the existing southbound bottleneck at the harbour bridge. There would be no point in the buslane being open to all traffic because they would all have to merge into the regular traffic lanes around Onewa Road, which is already a dogs breakfast. On the other hand though, buses using the dedicated bus lane would have a good run all the way from Sunset Rd (or so) past the stationary cagers. Surely some of them would wisen up and take the bus. Just look how full the new park 'n' ride car parks are.

In general though, I dont believe bus lanes are a particularly efficient use of pavement. A regular traffic lane has a capacity of approx 2100 vehicles per hour (ignoring merge and weave). If I remember correctly the NS bus lane is intended to carry up to 100 buses an hour southbound in the AM peak.

One of the main reasons that bus lanes are being built is because Transit made a commitment in the regional land transport strategy to provide better public transport facilities. And why did they make this committment? No, its not because they like travelling on buses, its because the public transport lobby (including The Greens) pushed hard for the inclusion of these policies.

The whole strategy went out for public consultation before decisions were made - theres not much point in whinging about it now.

[Drum]

Sorry Drum, Its you who are wrong. The specifically allows motorcycles to use bus lanes. The exception is where motorcycles are SPCIFICALLY prohibited by signage. Motorcycles are not specifically prohibited from the bus lanes in question.

This point has been debated on this site ad-nauseum.
If you think youre legally entitled to use the motorway bus lanes then just do so, and let us know what happens.

You never know - you may set a legal precedent, and then we'll all be happy!

Edit: To quote Dick: "Transit New Zealand regional manager (acting), Richard Hancy, says the new rules, which will allow cyclists and motorcyclists to use bus lanes on other roads, do not apply to bus lanes on motorways. 'Motorways are governed by Transit Bylaw 2002/19 which only allows motorway bus lanes to be used by 'timetabled passenger service vehicles'. This bylaw overrides the new traffic rules,' he says."

[Jantar]

This point has been debated on this site ad-nauseum.
If you think youre legally entitled to use the motorway bus lanes then just do so, and let us know what happens.

You never know - you may set a legal precedent, and then we'll all be happy!

Edit: To quote Dick: "Transit New Zealand regional manager (acting), Richard Hancy, says the new rules, which will allow cyclists and motorcyclists to use bus lanes on other roads, do not apply to bus lanes on motorways. 'Motorways are governed by Transit Bylaw 2002/19 which only allows motorway bus lanes to be used by 'timetabled passenger service vehicles'. This bylaw overrides the new traffic rules,' he says."

You can quote anyone from Transit that you like, but the fact stands that there is not a single bylaw in New Zealand that can override an act of parliament. The traffic regulations are gazetted and have the effect of being an Act of Parliament. There is also the fact that the traffic regulation overiding the provisions of Transit's bylaw was gazzetted in 2004, thus post dating and effectively repealling Transits Bylaw. If I lived in Auckland I wouldn't hesitate to use the bus lanes.

[Quartida]

I'm sorry? There's not a single bylaw that can override an act of parliament?


What about the brothel bylaws then?

That's what bylaws are. Things that go BY the LAW. As in, here's the law, and here are some exceptions or additions.

May I also point out that you would hesitate to use the bus lanes in Auckland if you were going to be fined. Which you would be. Because i's illegal. Or, at least, not permissible BYLAW.

[Quartida]

Sorry for the double post, but I feel this needs a separate box: At least Clive Fuhr's letter seems thought out and personal. He addresses some of our concerns. He makes some good points. We can't discredit that.

[Drum]

I understand that the traffic regulations are gazetted and have the effect of being an Act of Parliament, etc.

I wont pretend to be a legal beagle or anything, but isnt the whole point of a by-law that it is a variation on an existing law. Just like the new rules that let local councils set speed limits through by-laws where previously it had to be the LTSA/ LTNZ?

You could well be right Jantar, as far as I know no one has tested the resolution of the law on this one. Any volunteers?

[Jantar]

I'm sorry? There's not a single bylaw that can override an act of parliament?


What about the brothel bylaws then?

That's what bylaws are. Things that go BY the LAW. As in, here's the law, and here are some exceptions or additions.

May I also point out that you would hesitate to use the bus lanes in Auckland if you were going to be fined. Which you would be. Because i's illegal. Or, at least, not permissible BYLAW.

Without looking up the actual legislation that legalised prostitution to get the exact wording, I think you will find that the prostitution reform act allowed local authorities to set limits, conditions etc in their district plans.

You are quite right that a bylaw is for "Things that go BY the LAW", That is not Things that BYPASS the law.

The traffic regulations DO allow Transit, or local authorities to exclude motorcycles from bus lanes, and they do it by the very simple simple method of erecting signage that specifically excludes motorcycles. It can be as simple as saying "Buses only, Motorcycles prohibited" or it can be a picture of a motorcycle with a crossed red circle. As I understand it the Auckland Motorway bus lanes do not have such signage. Until Transit erects such signs then it IS legal to use the bus lanes.