Police working to a quota?? Surely not...

**Lou Girardin** · 10th July 2006, 08:17

Originally Posted by Dynamytus50

Yeah but look at the UK. Road polcing is taken so much more seriously over there, the people who moan about it over here have no idea. There is almost no tolerance over the speed limit apart from the motorway's and they have an extremely effective traffic enforcement. From average speed cameras, demerit points from cameras, huge patrol car fleet, underground speed detection systems etc etc but they still have cars that are imported and made there that are well able to go faster than the speed limit.
.

Rubbish. The main complaint in the UK is that there are not enough real cops doing traffic. It's all done with cameras.
Generally, on their motorways you don't get pinged for under 150 - 160 k's unless your speeding is aggravated by other factors.

**Lou Girardin** · 10th July 2006, 08:19

[QUOTE=scumdog]
After all, the MOT rarely were actively after 'criminals'.[/QUOTE

But we did catch some. Even without powers of arrest.

**Swoop** · 10th July 2006, 08:52

Ponder this.

The semi-decapitated, handless, beaten body that has been found in the sea close to Wellington... What would happen if it is found out that a driver/motorist has really gone postal on a cop who is out tax collecting?

A possibility, is it not?

**Swoop** · 10th July 2006, 09:37

Originally Posted by Dynamytus50

Well i can tell you from someone who was there for a month in may that you are completly wrong.

There is a huge traffic police presence over there, every town i went through had speed cameras which have demerit points, the multi legs and motorways have speed cameras every few hundred metres and you now get average speed cameras where a numberplate recognition system remembers your numberplate when you get on a motorway or multi leg and records you when you get off. It then works out your average speed and will give you a ticket with demerit points if your over the limit. People are so careful about speeding over there, the constables i spoke to over there laughed when i told them of the New Zealand Traffic Policing.

The tolerance is 3% on speed cameras to account for speedoo's being incorrect on individual cars but other than that you will get a ticket and the demerit points are extremely harsh.

The traffic officers drive BMW's and Volvo's which would make our holdens look like they were going backwards. They are everywhere as well, all the time. I was going through Diss at 3am and i saw one sitting next to a bush a laser gun, thats on a quiet country road.

You dont know what your talking about, i dont know where your getting your facts from but they are either outdated or incorrect.

So all of that system is designed to:
a: target speed,
b: generate tax $$$.

It does nothing to target the poor/inattentive/dangerous/drunk driver.

**Squeak the Rat** · 10th July 2006, 09:49

Originally Posted by scumdog

Groundhog Day!! (again)

Same old blah-blah-blah, - public whinge & cops 'defend' their position.

Couldn't agree more!

Why is it that the damn public keep whinging about this........?

**Lou Girardin** · 10th July 2006, 10:07

D50, you just confirmed it for yourself. Cameras everywhere. They do have blitzs on bikes in some areas, but traffic policing is nearly all cameras. One month in the UK, wouldn't count as an exhaustive study.
Where do you think the LTSA gets their research from?
That they do it themselves?
It's ALL Monash University research.

**Ixion** · 10th July 2006, 11:14

Originally Posted by spudchucka

Rubbish! You have police officers telling you the truth about the way things are done and the wankers on this site are just turning the thread into a typical BS pig bashing.

The problem (and it is a problem , whether the police are willing to admit it or not) is wider than just "wankers on this site " "pig bashing"

In real life I am , for my sins, president of our local Residents Association. The members of such associations are far from "wanker bikers". Yet policing is one of the issues that we receive the most input from our members about. They are not happy. Being mostly polite householder type people they are unhappy in a low key don't-rock-the-boat fashion . But they are unhappy. And, IMHO , with good reason.

We (the Residents Assn) have been trying for 5 years to get more general duties police out on the streets. Because our members repeately tell us that they do not feel safe (and are not safe). We have approached (by mail and in person) , the Minister, MPs the Police Commissioner, various Area Commanders, Broad when he was the chief turkey for Auckland, and I've lost track of who else.

We are told, without exception, that either "there are plenty of police" or "we haven't enough staff"

If the former, why are our residents being knocked down in broad daylight and their purses stolen? Their homes burgled? their children assaulted? If the latter why do we see no shortage of police on traffic duty. That last is not my comment (I am but a wanking biker). It is a comment that I receive REPEATEDLY from the general public.

An old lady was knocked down and her handbag stolen, in broad daylight. The thief ran off . A member of the public went to her aid . He related this to me. He called 111. "Old lady, bag stolen, thief running off down XX street". Police: "Is the (thief) still present"."No, I just told you, he's just run off" Police:" Then we can't do anything. She must go to the police station and make a complaint". "But , but" Police:" We can't do anything , there's no-one available. Goodbye". Samaritan takes old lady home. On way, a few hundred yards away they pass two cars full of police, on traffic duty. Old lady: "Surely one of them could have come and helped me?" Is the old lady also a "wanker", "pig bashing" ? (She did not go to the police station. She is 80 years old, no transport, the police station is miles away , and as she said" I don't suppose they'll get my purse back for me")

I have lost count of the number of complaints that I have had about people being burgled, kids mugged etc, and the police refusing to do anything. Then the victim seeing large numebrs of police (not just a single officer) on traffic duties ,

Are the public in general just "wankers", "pig bashing" ?

The grim reality is , that throughout much of the country, the Rule of Law has collapsed, and the police are failing entirely in their duty to maintain the law. The only law that is being maintained is traffic law.

And even traffic law is not maintained.Except for speeding.

Another perenniel complaint which I receive is about pedestrian crossings.

There are two in particular. Admittedly , they are not well sited, but that does not excuse drivers blasting over them and failing to give way to the pedestrians wanting to cross. And admitted, the drivers are probably not exceeding the speed limit. But even 50kph seems very frightening if you are old, or pregnant, and a car doing 50 clips past you with only a few inches to spare.. Many members report having to literally jump to safety.

We (I) have taken this up numerous times with the police. The answer is , as always, "we haven't enough staff to do anything". Yet there are always enough staff for speeding tickets. I see them being dished out on the same day that I am told "we haven't enough staff".

There ARE enough staff. It is the police priorities that are wrong, and the police obstinately refuse to acknowlege the genuine and legitimate public concern about this.

**Lou Girardin** · 10th July 2006, 11:21

Originally Posted by Dynamytus50

I would say the LTSA gets a lot of it from us, they get a copy of a traffic crash report from both us and SCU.

I'm talking about real research D50. Like the UK's TRL study in the causes of accidents, which found that exceeding the limit was responsible for 7%. A recent study in Queensland found the same. But reports like this aren't popular with Govt's because they don't support revenue gathering.
It's what most Western countries do to find out what works in accident reduction.

**Lou Girardin** · 10th July 2006, 11:25

Ixion is dead right. When you have newspaper columnists, who wouldn't normally comment on Policing, having a go over quotas etc, the cops have a serious problem. But they just won't see it.
How bad do public/Police relations have to get before the thickheads in charge wake up?

**Dangerous Dane** · 10th July 2006, 11:44

I've had a fair wack of experience with the police now and I've seen their corruption and manipulation first hand. Just over little things but I have to say I have ZERO faith in the police force barr the few small town cops who have to get along with their communitys.

**Squeak the Rat** · 10th July 2006, 13:36

Originally Posted by Dynamytus50

More members of the public need to make more noise about it though. Its all very well for people to bash frontline cops on an online forum or even in the street, but we dont control what we are assigned to or how many cops we get.

Every time we argue this - online or offline - we get told in effect that we don't know what is best for us, or that we are police bashing.

The issue has been prominent in the media. Again, it is labelled cop bashing, or we are told that we are wrong.

Unfortunately there are some people who do direct this at the individuals on the front line who as a whole do a good job. But, the comments on this site are representative of New Zealanders. And just like in our society we have some who can argue articulately and logically like Ixion, down to people like me who get side tracked and rant about allsorts while meaning to address the core issue, and through to people who have to resort to insults or let it affect their opinion of individuals.

I grew up in South Auckland. I have friends who are cops. I have full respect for frontline officers. I completely disagree with a lot of Police policy. Unfortunately some people don't distinguish between policy and the individual, and a lot of officers don't distinguish between arguments about policy and cop-bashing....

**Finn** · 10th July 2006, 14:27

Originally Posted by Lou Girardin

Ixion is dead right?

And still the bastard manages to post!

**terbang** · 10th July 2006, 14:53

Originally Posted by Squeak the Rat

I completely disagree with a lot of Police policy. Unfortunately some people don't distinguish between policy and the individual, and a lot of officers don't distinguish between arguments about policy and cop-bashing....

You got it. I think there must be a fair bit of indoctrination blindness with a lot of cops because they will never listen to any sort of balanced debate and are incapable of admitting or accepting any imperfections within their own organisation.