Request for assistance from MAG

**James Deuce** · 27th July 2006, 11:15

Suggestions in this thread. I'll post a copy of the email I'm going to send for suggestions/clarification on Monday morning.

Thanks in advance.

**James Deuce** · 27th July 2006, 11:34

From Ixion:

Some source documents:

Cabinet briefing paper:

http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...0-Strategy.pdf
2010 Startegy review paper
http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...een-report.pdf

Scarey stuff.

**Squeak the Rat** · 27th July 2006, 12:24

Jim,

I almost think that we need to send these links to MAG with a big overall request for help. The topic is bigger than the lack of consulation on the workshops.

If we're going to get into detail, we need some amunition to refute claims from this report, and it would appear the MAG have somehow managed to do this in the UK.

Some points I picked up that they might be able to help us with

Increase the age for bike learners
Bikes crash more
Bike crashes cost more
Bikers are therefore subsidised by the rest of the population
Claims that bikes are better enconomically and environmentally are false
Our ACC levies should increase as a result
Training does not make any difference to safety

We also need some tips on how to argue this a way that is most likely to achieve results.

I'll give it some more thought.....

P

**James Deuce** · 27th July 2006, 12:27

That's what I'm thinking StR.

I'd like to be able to pick their brains and then hand over the outcome to BRONZ so they can use the process and methods that MAG have developed.

I'm not sure BRONZ will want it though, given the normal vehement response to any criticism levelled at them.

**jimbo600** · 27th July 2006, 16:41

What a load of old bollocks. If they want the social cost to come down then teach people to drive properly for fucks sake. They should have a tiered licensing system. When you get a license you're issued a green plate and are restricted to say 80kmh, as you obtain more experience you can go for a higher license such as white up to 120kmh and red up to 140kmh. This would encourage people to better their skill sets and reward them with certain privileges. It would also however make a dent into the govt coffers and as such would be observed dimly by the govt.

**Hitcher** · 27th July 2006, 20:23

That Breen Report takes the bun. It contains some interesting statistics and interpretations thereof. I wonder how much it cost?

I am constantly astounded as to how driver training is ignored as a safety measure by these so-called experts. Safer roads, safer vehicles, greater enforcement, lower speeds, soberer drivers, but all predicated on an assumption that the useless fuckers already know how to drive a vehicle and are familiar with the road code. Sheesh.

**Blackbird** · 27th July 2006, 20:46

Originally Posted by Hitcher

That Breen Report takes the bun. It contains some interesting statistics and interpretations thereof. I wonder how much it cost?

I am constantly astounded as to how driver training is ignored as a safety measure by these so-called experts. Safer roads, safer vehicles, greater enforcement, lower speeds, soberer drivers, but all predicated on an assumption that the useless fuckers already know how to drive a vehicle and are familiar with the road code. Sheesh.

I wholeheartedly agree. Not that it will make any fu***ng difference, but I posted this on the Safe As website. I could have gone on for ever, but at least I felt better for having written something.

As a fellow biker says, "Speed doesn't kill people, stupidity kills people". As a motorcyclist (and car driver) with 40 years experience, my time on a motorcycle has taught me that you never stop learning driving skills. I have put myself through advanced car and motorcycle courses to give myself additional skills. It is arguable that the average driver having passed their test believes that they have adequate skills for the rest of their lives which is clearly nonsense

Reducing road speeds impacts on the economy. Increasing fines etc is punitive rather than educational. If we are serious about improving road accident rates then we have to improve the standard of driving through better training. Inattention/poor observation was a major contributor to accidents as was the number of young and unlicensed (untrained) drivers.

Let's be imaginitive, not punitive!

**Squeak the Rat** · 28th July 2006, 08:25

It's still worth doing this exercise. This whole debacle seems to got the passion up in people (which is good!).

Lets see what MAG have to say and present it to Bronz in a helpful manner. I'm sure they'd actually appreciate the input.

**Hitcher** · 28th July 2006, 09:17

Meanwhile we could OIA the Ministry of Transport and LTNZ to death. If we felt so inclined...

**Squeak the Rat** · 28th July 2006, 09:22

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Meanwhile we could OIA the Ministry of Transport and LTNZ to death. If we felt so inclined...

Ok, I'll play - what's OIA? Is it like ATFOO (annoy the fuck out of)?

**Hitcher** · 28th July 2006, 09:26

For a bureaucrat it is exactly like ATFOO. OIA is the Official Information Act, or in this context requests for information lodged under the provisions of said.

**Squeak the Rat** · 28th July 2006, 09:30

And prey tell the correct procedure for lodging an OIA request....

**The Stranger:Me** · 28th July 2006, 09:42

Originally Posted by Jim2

I'm not sure BRONZ will want it though, given the normal vehement response to any criticism levelled at them.

Get off your high horse Jim2.

I, and I feel most of the members of BRONZ are fine with constructive criticism, similarly we are only too happy to have any assistance we can get.

So I assure you your effort will be welcomed.

**RabidTraNZiT** · 28th July 2006, 09:49

There are other things you could do as well. If you are called up for jury service at any time, just remember your last trumped-up speeding ticket, and repeat after me...

"Not Guilty!".

Taking any case to trial costs a huge amount of money, and the prosecution has a virtually bottomless wallet, as opposed to any of us.

Hanging a jury is your democratic right as a juror, if you have any doubts whatsoever about the case or the standard of evidence, and you don't even have to give a reason! As bikers under attack, we now have a reason to punish the justice system just as it seeks to punish us for indulging in our passion. Every motorcyclist should take it upon themselves to help preserve what little democracy we still have left.

It is our duty.

Obviously, child molesters etc would be exempt from our collective generosity, they are always guilty, and are best kept in the care of "loving fellow inmates" that will "take care" of them...

Ride hard, ride safe.