1950s license plates

**d0n** · 18th November 2006, 12:33

Does anyone have knowledge of 1950's numberplates for motorbikes/scooters? I'm having trouble with LTNZ. The old numberplate for my recently restored 1956 Douglas 42l2 Vespa has 5 numbers. I have been told by Onroad that numberplates in the 1950's were'nt 5 numbers-they always had a letter. They won't redo my rego as I can't prove previous registration in NZ. I'd love to prove them wrong.

**Paul in NZ** · 18th November 2006, 12:42

Originally Posted by d0n

Does anyone have knowledge of 1950's numberplates for motorbikes/scooters? I'm having trouble with LTNZ. The old numberplate for my recently restored 1956 Douglas 42l2 Vespa has 5 numbers. I have been told by Onroad that numberplates in the 1950's were'nt 5 numbers-they always had a letter. They won't redo my rego as I can't prove previous registration in NZ. I'd love to prove them wrong.

They are wrong.

For some odd reason some didn't. My 1954 AJS was 855YR, my 5T was 771SD and another one was 48ENR (2 number 3 letters) but my 1963/4 Norton Atlas was 33263.

I have a photo of the Atlas with the plate visible. I do remember being stopped by the Police and the guy reckoned it was a trailer number plate but when he radio'd it in - nope.

**T.W.R** · 18th November 2006, 12:53

There's a period photo, all three bikes have number only plates

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...7&d=1152310715

**Motu** · 18th November 2006, 13:18

Shit,I had that problem in the '70's,so I can imagine it would be worse now.My 1964 Rickman Metisse had an all mumber plate....even as a motocross bike it was registered,that made it easy to make road legal of course.When I lost the plate they told me the original plate must be wrong because it was all numbers...silly buggers.

**Ixion** · 18th November 2006, 13:39

Bear in mind that in the 50s you got a new (different) number plate each year.

Older bikes (after the chnage every year era) definately sometimes had numbers only. I think they started with numbers (00001 or maybe 10000) and when they reach 99999 went to A0001 etc.

I think that way back registration was a local body thing, like driver's licencing was. Different Road Boards or Councils may have had different rules.

EDIT. Got a piccy of one, n'all

EDITY EDIT: I was wrong about the "new plate every year". It was only a new plate every year until 1941. From then until 1964 y'got a new plate every 5 years,and a new sticker (honking big thing, stuck in middle of windscreen) for the other years .Blurdy Germans.

Every motor vehicle had to be relicensed on the same day too (1st June I think). You wouldn't want to know about the queues at the Post office, 'twas a nightmare.

There was also (earlier I think) a bit of printed cardboard that you had to put into a little leather pouch strapped around the steering column. Can't quite remember what that was about.

**Ixion** · 18th November 2006, 13:52

Here y'go. Linky to the gubbernmint "history of number plates" site (amazing what you get for your tax dollars, isn't it).

And prior to 1964 an all numeric plate on a motorcycle was indeed possible. Tell the LTSA to consult their own ministry.

http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/fas...eg-plates.html

**Hitcher** · 18th November 2006, 17:03

So what happens to bike rego plates in the not too distant future when the current series runs out at 99ZZZ? There are no more possible five character number/letter combinations from that point.

**Steam** · 18th November 2006, 17:15

Originally Posted by d0n

I have been told by Onroad ...

Is this the same Onroad testing station that believed the clutch lever was the brake? Fuck, they sound like a bunch of muppets. What branch is it? The moron branch is apparently Portage Rd, New Lynn but I see you live in Malborough. Must be a cheap operation if they hire staff like that.

**xwhatsit** · 18th November 2006, 17:33

Originally Posted by Hitcher

So what happens to bike rego plates in the not too distant future when the current series runs out at 99ZZZ? There are no more possible five character number/letter combinations from that point.

99ZZZ... well, that's a while into the future, but it'll come sooner or later. However, they'll just do the same with bikes as they did with cars; adjust the format of the combination. So we might have 999ZZZ, or 9ZZZ9, etc etc. Now, using permutation theory we know that if you have a set (N) and make a combination of (R), you have N^R possible permutations. So, N=36 (26 letters and 10 digits), and R=5 of course. 36^5=60466176. This is in excess of 60 million permutations. I'd say we have a long, long time before we have to worry about that, even if all of Auckland gets sick cages and buys bikes.

What happens once we run out of those 60 million combinations? Well, there's a few options. Either change N, or change R. Changing N means introducing things other than A-Z, 0-9. Square? Triangle? Changing R is a little different. We can go either up or down in R; make the plate only with a length of 4, or 3, 2, 1. There are fewer combinations there but they might tide us over for a while. Of course we can make R bigger, to 6 letters, but then cages have 6, and 7 might be a bit big for a bike.

My thoughts after all this longwindedness is that it's all irrelevant (as most things I say tend to be). By the time we chew up 60 million number plates, there'll be new technology out there instead of plates. RFID? (I hope not, it's bloody insecure). But perhaps something quite similar to RFID, in that it can be read remotely. Number plates are pretty old-fashioned when you think about it.

After that lengthy excursion off topic, good luck with your Vespa problem d0n! The Douglas was the British licence made version, right? I think my grandpa had one after he had his Velocette.

**Skyryder** · 18th November 2006, 23:33

My earliest recolection of number plates had no letters. They were yellow background with black letters. Some time in the late fifties 58 or 59 they were black with silver numbers and letters. Vintage car buffs would be able to give more precise details on this.

Skyryder

**Indiana_Jones** · 19th November 2006, 01:15

I wanna have a cool licence plate on my front cover

-Indy

**Hitcher** · 19th November 2006, 14:48

Originally Posted by xerxesdaphat

99ZZZ... well, that's a while into the future, but it'll come sooner or later. However, they'll just do the same with bikes as they did with cars; adjust the format of the combination. So we might have 999ZZZ, or 9ZZZ9, etc etc. Now, using permutation theory we know that if you have a set (N) and make a combination of (R), you have N^R possible permutations. So, N=36 (26 letters and 10 digits), and R=5 of course. 36^5=60466176. This is in excess of 60 million permutations. I'd say we have a long, long time before we have to worry about that, even if all of Auckland gets sick cages and buys bikes.

Sigh. We're over halfway through the Ys now. If plates keep getting issued at the current rate then we'll be at 99ZZZ by the end of 2007. And, if you read the post above, you'll see that most of the five-character series are kaput. Others are taken care of as part of car regos e.g. DGB44 is a five-character plate. So while you appear to have a moderate grasp of mathematics you could well benefit from being a little more observant.

**Indiana_Jones** · 19th November 2006, 20:07

But out of all the combinations, surely most of them are out of service and couldn't you use the numbers again?

-Indy

**xwhatsit** · 19th November 2006, 22:52

Not only what Indy said, but why do we have to follow `series'? Why can't they just start right at the beginning; 00000; and then go 00001 and so on, skip the plates that are already taken (how many plates are there around? Can't be anywhere near even 30 million?). I don't see why it's necessary to follow any particlar pattern, such as ##$$$.