Death of the two-stroke

[Lord Derosso]

H2's were known more for this ?

No.... I have been behind one at 120 kph( let him go ahead of me to keep his ego since I was on the original GS750 ), and the smoke is still in your face at 50 metres gap.

[Ixion]

Sorry - still not buying it. even the Mach 4's acceleation pales compared to the ZX14 - the same surge - but it goes 'forever' on the four stroke.

Gimme a big grunty 4 valve dohc any day with 200 ponies and i'll tell ya who'll be smellin' fumes. ;-)

Uh, is it not significant that you can even MAKE a comparison given the ZX14 has the advantage of double the capacity and 40 years of extra development ?

How I wonder would the ZX14 stack up against a 1400cc 21st century two smoker? (Especially remembering that the H series were simple piston ported machines)

[Big Dave]

Uh, is it not significant that you can even MAKE a comparison given the ZX14 has the advantage of double the capacity and 40 years of extra development ?

How I wonder would the ZX14 stack up against a 1400cc 21st century two smoker? (Especially remembering that the H series were simple piston ported machines)

There you go again - letting facts get in the way of a good arguement!

We were talking about the demise of the two stroke were we not - like 'today' - I reserve the right to quantum leap!

[TLDV8]

(Especially remembering that the H series were simple piston ported machines)

Indeed,but that doesn't stop the fastest Kawasaki H2 750 on the Planet running a 7.7 ET @ 170mph....... I wonder if anyone will remember any of the bikes released this year in 34 years time,i doubt it,holding any kind of World Record even less so...H2's will still be around when the said ZX14 comes back as a Coke can.

[TLDV8]

How I wonder would the ZX14 stack up against a 1400cc 21st century two smoker?

Some folk thought direct injection might have been the Two Strokes savior but not much came of it (Not forgetting the demise of the Bimota V-Due 500)
Clean burning engines could have been built but the powers to be stopped it.If it were not for the Asian market they would be long gone..... As far as performance against modern engines,200 to 350HP two strokes are a reality given the engine management systems now available.The writing was on the wall when jetski's started going to diesel engines.No doubt in the next few years the diehards will have to meet covertly so they can run their weed eaters up on castrol to remember the good old days.

[Brian d marge]

better start with the statement, I love two strokes , I mean why use any more ?
The old water bottles were designed as a touring bike , ie a huge powerband ...they failed at that niche , But in other spheres the 2 stroke shines.

I sat down earlier this year and had a big think over what I wanted from my race bike, in X country te power delivery is import but the overall speed is low , I WAS going to use a small fourstroke ( come back to this ).. but I decided to stay with the 2 stroke , ( I ll decrease the carb size , and fiddle with exhaust timings ~)

I think that Honda is focusing on four strokes as ( as we have heard , kalifornia, ALSO its where all the development is , F1, motogp MX all share the same research, it just good business sense.

One of the biggest problems with two strokes is traction . as the rear wheel goes round , one a two stroke it its being stressed by the power pulse Every revolution of the engine ...like a hammer belting a way a thousand times a second .... Increase the power ( IE the force of the blow of the hammer, ) and you will tend to break traction more often .....

you can see why they went towards the big band style engines ....

With injected 2 strokes I had a discussion paper from yamaha about a 100 cc feul injected 2 stroke , and the speed of the electrics were a problem ..the electricity was to slow...

Finally ( with the mx bikes at least, ) the four stroke bikes are VERY highly stressed , YOU MUST maintain ..ie change the wear parts , such as valve springs or they WILL break... and thats great for the bottom line of a motorcycle manufacter

Stephen

must hurry rossi is trying for the lead ...

[Hillbilly]

.....hopefully the apprilla rs250 will stick around I still want to buy one of those as they are one of my dream bikes..

mmmmmm 70+ horsepower on a bike lighter than a 250 4 stroke I couldn't think of anything better except maybe two of them

I'v been looking at their Italian website, and no mention of the RS 250, just the RS 125. Looks like the RS 250 has gone the way of the dodo, as street version anyway.

[edit] After reading through all of this thread I'm really looking forward to getting my hands on a Cagiva Mito.

[spudchucka]

See the XR's are being stopped as well due to Nazi noise regs, was reading this in an aussy mag so maybe its just over there

There was talk of it on thumpertalk.com too but somebody posted a US Honda link showing the xr650r in the 2007 line up.

I have to admit that the muffler on my XR doesn't do a great deal of muffling, could be interesting for me at WOF time.

[nudemetalz]

Ahhh,...I reflect back when I used to own my RZ-500 back in 1993.
Just the feel and the noise as it came on the pipe (s) at 6000rpm.
You haven't lived 'til you've done that !!

[TLDV8]

No.... I have been behind one at 120 kph( let him go ahead of me to keep his ego since I was on the original GS750 ), and the smoke is still in your face at 50 metres gap.

Sorry you lost me No smoke involved,the attached pic was a wheelie shot (What H2's are mainly known for).... The problem with the whole Triple thing being,the legend gets bigger by the year.Most are bolic stories of not handling,100 mph wheelies blah blah ....... You question folk and their experiance most times was based on one wobbly lap of the block.Most Japanese bikes of the era were a little shy in the spring/damping area.

Sure the 72/73 750's smoked a bit,they would do with an oil passage going straight into the floor of the inlet port.The 73/74 (B&C) bikes have seperate oil feed lines going to the carburetor bowls and a better oil pump so it worked better emmission wise.

[wickedstuff]

Its hard to say if the 2 stroke bikes will be banned from road altogether? even if they stop producing them? but i recon if youve never owned a good one? now would be the time to buy one! and enjoy the fun of them, either a RS250 or RGV250 or go for a dirt bike, at least you can youve owned one and had some fun! the main thing as most ppl know is tune them right and pick good oils to suit the type of bike there is alot of knowledge on 2 strokes and different forums so help is only a click away! if you think your a good rider? get on a 500cc 2 stroke motorcross bike, you will either have a smile for week? or shit ya pants?
then you can say woooo 2 strokes rock! have fun! thats whats it all about!

[Madmax]

I LOVE BIG BORE TWO STROKES wonder why

[limbimtimwim]

Its hard to say if the 2 stroke bikes will be banned from road altogether?

Got banned in California years ago.

[davereid]

Got banned in California years ago.

Ah yes, the american brain. Bans the 49cc two stroke cos its a polluter. But the 440 cubic inch engine is OK cos its a 4 stroke.

[Ivan]

Mate I am a 2 stroke man through and through vey sad news about Honda but dont worry the hinese will start making them so we will never see the end of them you wait until HOnda sells off all there 2 stroke engine designs to the chinese we will be seeing Jonshin or whatever they called


the mighty Jonshin Motox125 or whatever


GO THE MIGHTY SMOKA