ACC Levies - Unfair for Kiwi Bikers

[BLACK B]

as for passengers are they not the author of their own misfortune getting into a car with a drunk driver???

No argument there!

[Ixion]

Are you sure.....ACC covers this...........

Yes. I mean, ACC covers the injury, but the cost of it is met by the government, funded from general taxation.

ACC have 3 (main) funds that are used to fund the cost of injury cover. The employer fund (actually, employer and employee), funded by a payroll levy on employers, and a levy on income of employed people . This is used to fund the cost of "work" accidents. The motorvehicle fund is funded by (mainly) the rego levy and is used to fund the cost of (duh) motorvehicle accidents. And the general fund is funded by the government from general taxation (ie there is no specific tax for it) and is used to fund the cost of non-work, non-vehicle accidents. Each fund is require dto "pay as it goes", ie the fund has to have enough in it to pay all claims in any year , and provide an acturially based accural for ongoing future costs of such claims.

EDIT What i was origianlly getting at, is that a sport injury is funded from the general fund, which is not funded by employer or rego levies.

[Grahameeboy]

No argument there!

Yeah think I realised that after I sent post.....I have been here 8 years and still think that UK system of taking responsibility is a good one......I mean there is always the National Health System to treat the physical side...just have an issue with the financial reward...tricky one as the wife, kids etc should not suffer but as Youngmisses says that is where private insurance comes in if they have it of course.....

[Grahameeboy]

Yes. I mean, ACC covers the injury, but the cost of it is met by the government, funded from general taxation.

ACC have 3 (main) funds that are used to fund the cost of injury cover. The employer fund (actually, employer and employee), funded by a payroll levy on employers, and a levy on income of employed people . This is used to fund the cost of "work" accidents. The motorvehicle fund is funded by (mainly) the rego levy and is used to fund the cost of (duh) motorvehicle accidents. And the general fund is funded by the government from general taxation (ie there is no specific tax for it) and is used to fund the cost of non-work, non-vehicle accidents. Each fund is require dto "pay as it goes", ie the fund has to have enough in it to pay all claims in any year , and provide an acturially based accural for ongoing future costs of such claims.

EDIT What i was origianlly getting at, is that a sport injury is funded from the general fund, which is not funded by employer or rego levies.

Understand but tax is tax be it a levy on rego.......chances of either running out is not gonna happen from what I hear as they seem to have a bottomless pit.....

[yungatart]

Were you touching wood when you typed that?

Yep! Had my hand on my head and my elbow resting on the desk, just to make sure!

[The Stranger:Me]

Whilst I have issues with ACC at the same time it has lots of pros and I really do not see the fact that we pay more on Rego as a big issue in the whole scheme of things........sorry.

Except there is a govt position paper somewhere (please don't ask where, but I can probably find it if I have to) which basically says that motorcyclists should be ACC levied off of the road. This is one option which ACC are/were considering, and may yet come to pass.

Would you still be happy with paying more then?

[Grahameeboy]

Except there is a govt position paper somewhere (please don't ask where, but I can probably find it if I have to) which basically says that motorcyclists should be ACC levied off of the road. This is one option which ACC are/were considering, and may yet come to pass.

Would you still be happy with paying more then?

I have no problem paying more....I enjoy riding my bike so over a 12 month period the Rego is insigificant compared to other things and is just not a battle I worry about...........at the end of day when we crash it can cost more ands as ACC is 'Non-Fault' then who was to blame is not as important as the treatment provided by ACC.

It just seems that motorcylists are full of self pity....bloody cops, bloody cagers, bloody Rego etc and that we forget the important part of riding a motorbike........it is a luxury for most of us and I guess this costs....I mean a new set of sport tyres costs $550, service $250, clothing etc, and we could replace tyres once a year so paying $200 or so for Rego is small change.

[The Stranger:Me]

It is my belief that more accidents are caused by cars and thus the levies should be equally split not higher for us. So I realllllllly want people to tell me if they have been involved in an Accident and who was at fault. can you E-mail me please. I've also written to Fair Go. mikeycbd@xtra.co.nz without ACC investigating we will always pay the penalty for bad car drivers.

No the biggest cause of motorcycle accidents is single vehicle (i.e. our own fault) loosing it on a right hand bend.

That said, although we cause most of our own accidents these cost ACC F.A. (in general). What costs is when another vehicle is invloved. The majority of these are the (usually) cages fault. Sure everyone knows of exceptions, but that is how it is for the most part.

[Grahameeboy]

No the biggest cause of motorcycle accidents is single vehicle (i.e. our own fault) loosing it on a right hand bend.

That said, although we cause most of our own accidents these cost ACC F.A. (in general). What costs is when another vehicle is invloved. The majority of these are the (usually) cages fault. Sure everyone knows of exceptions, but that is how it is for the most part.

So if we are mainly to blamed why are we worrying about paying higher Rego?

[The Stranger:Me]

I have no problem paying more....I enjoy riding my bike so over a 12 month period the Rego is insigificant compared to other things and is just not a battle I worry about...........at the end of day when we crash it can cost more ands as ACC is 'Non-Fault' then who was to blame is not as important as the treatment provided by ACC.

It just seems that motorcylists are full of self pity....bloody cops, bloody cagers, bloody Rego etc and that we forget the important part of riding a motorbike........it is a luxury for most of us and I guess this costs....I mean a new set of sport tyres costs $550, service $250, clothing etc, and we could replace tyres once a year so paying $200 or so for Rego is small change.

Sure and if you own only one bike and a car that is all good. I still see this as the thin edge of a wedge. I would prefer to address it now than when they do decide to levy motorcycles off of the road. I would prefer that ACC know they will have a fight on their hands and not try.

I note you only pay about $200.00. I know a guy who has a $1,800.00 annual bill for registering his motorcycles. He only ever rides one at a time. Why should he pay $1,800.00 when you pay $200.00 for the same pleasure? Other than the ACC cost his cost of ownership is not that much greater than yours.

[Grahameeboy]

Sure and if you own only one bike and a car that is all good. I still see this as the thin edge of a wedge. I would prefer to address it now than when they do decide to levy motorcycles off of the road. I would prefer that ACC know they will have a fight on their hands and not try.

I note you only pay about $200.00. I know a guy who has a $1,800.00 annual bill for registering his motorcycles. He only ever rides one at a time. Why should he pay $1,800.00 when you pay $200.00 for the same pleasure? Other than the ACC cost his cost of ownership is not that much greater than yours.

In the UK you pay a Road Licence per vehicle so I don't have an issue...plus I do not have the same pleasure as matey with a few bikes as I only have one bike to ride...surely his cost of ownership is more if he has 9 bikes although I guess that is relative to earnings....user pays, he has 9 bikes so he pays for it......I think it is that simple plus I guess the % of guys with several vehicles is pretty low so not much of an argument.

Plus do you really think that ACC will think they have a fight on their hands against 1% of the population??

The Govt does not seem to worry about disability which affects 24% of the population so lets just enjoy the pleasure of riding our bikes........life is really too short...

[The Stranger:Me]

So if we are mainly to blamed why are we worrying about paying higher Rego?

Think of the number of bins on the Thursday night ride.
Most of these walk away, many ride home. Some have spent a night or generally no more than 2 in hospital.

A mate got hit by a 4x4 was off work for a year, in intensive care for about a week, had a hip joint rebuilt, titanium rod in his leg, house modified, been in rehab. Been back to have his leg re-set had more time off of work and still walks with a stick.

The difference is in cost HUGE

Another point to consider is why are only motorcyclists singled out for attention. We are the only ones who are (outside of employment related categories) The no blame part is is for both cause and cost, not just cost. You are not blamed if you are in the commission of a crime are you?

Another point about the no blame thing, trucks account for say 5% of the truck fleet but about 17% of accident costs. Why not single them out?

The figures in the last example may be a bit out because they are from memory, however they aren't far out.

[Grahameeboy]

Think of the number of bins on the Thursday night ride.
Most of these walk away, many ride home. Some have spent a night or generally no more than 2 in hospital.

A mate got hit by a 4x4 was off work for a year, in intensive care for about a week, had a hip joint rebuilt, titanium rod in his leg, house modified, been in rehab. Been back to have his leg re-set had more time off of work and still walks with a stick.

The difference is in cost HUGE

Another point to consider is why are only motorcyclists singled out for attention. We are the only ones who are (outside of employment related categories) The no blame part is is for both cause and cost, not just cost. You are not blamed if you are in the commission of a crime are you?

Another point about the no blame thing, trucks account for say 5% of the truck fleet but about 17% of accident costs. Why not single them out?

The figures in the last example may be a bit out because they are from memory, however they aren't far out.

But is accident cost related to ACC payments? Plus Lorries pay a higher Road User Charge. A lot of Lorry accidents are also single vehicle so we are back in Motorbike area and most drivers walk away, probably with less cost to ACC than single accident riders.

So we are singled out..big deal....nothing new plus we are a minority so we are an easy target....compared to a car riding a motorbike is a higher risk.......maybe there is a genuine concern because I doubt the total ACC levy from motorbikes is that great anyway and I suspect that car drivers levies contribute more to the cost, to ACC of looking after motorcyclists than we do anyway...I mean does $200 or so cover me just having gravel rash treated...suspect not

I wish you well but to me it is a nothing issue that is all but respect you for following your beliefs.

[The Stranger:Me]

I wish you well but to me it is a nothing issue that is all but respect you for following your beliefs.

Ok, Grahameeboy, I can dig what you say sir.

Me, I try to put something back into motorcycling cause I really appreciate what I get out of it and all the absolutely fucken awesome people you meet. I try to make a difference politically, volunteer my time with RRRS and help anyone I can with advice and time with repairs and tools etc.

I figure if we don't protect (or at least try to) what we have or we stand to loose it (or some of it) and shit, I don't want that thank you.

To each his own though.

But hey what I can't figure out is, if you really don't care, why you arguing? Slow day I guess?

[Grahameeboy]

Ok, Grahameeboy, I can dig what you say sir.

Me, I try to put something back into motorcycling cause I really appreciate what I get out of it and all the absolutely fucken awesome people you meet. I try to make a difference politically, volunteer my time with RRRS and help anyone I can with advice and time with repairs and tools etc.

I figure if we don't protect (or at least try to) what we have or we stand to loose it (or some of it) and shit, I don't want that thank you.

To each his own though.

But hey what I can't figure out is, if you really don't care, why you arguing? Slow day I guess?

I care to contribute to this Thread