Group Riding Guidelines

[Ixion]

Not quite sure why, but I think the "training" type rides, and things like Toy Runs are a different matter.

It's not having lots of riders that is the issue. It's the "keeping up" syndrome
I think the "ride at your own pace" mantra is a copout, it doesn't solve anything. Because all of us feel comfortable at a faster pace when following someone. "He got round OK, so can I". And if the lead rider is a faster/more experienced rider, then the rider following probably WILL be faster - he benefits from followng the more experienced riders lines etc.

So if A is following B, and the pace for the last few miles has been rather faster than A would have gone on his own, he's probably still quite comfortable. He feels he's "riding at his own pace".And enjoying himself. Which is good. UNTIL something goes wrong . B goes in a bit fast. Or there's a cage on the wrong side of the road comming round a corner. Or gravel on the road.

Now B will prolly be OK. He's been riding below his limit anyway, even if he stuffs up, he can probably pull something out of the bag and get through. But A, who's been following him, doesn't have that extra to call on. And then it's goodnight nurse.

[Waylander]

SHaun, I'm not sure I entirely agree with you. Sure group rides are dangerous but without them, maintaining the comunity we have here would be alot harder. Most of the friends I have here in NZ I met on group rides or other functions orginized on here.

Isnt part of the fascination of riding the danger of it anyway? There should be a way to do group rides safely without going the Ulyssys route and taking all the fun out of it. Jim2,s idea seems to work as I've yet to hear about a crash on his rides and us up in Tauranga do ok with the exception of one guy for the most part.

[roogazza]

I have really been shitting myself about making such a post, and to know that a couple of others agree, makes me very comfortable with coming out with it

+1 Shaun. I totally agree , One group run was enough for me , ever since, I sit back every time I'm out, and watch these groups with members way over their heads looking for a place to jump off ! ( they average one per ride ) I want no part of them. G.

[sAsLEX]

What many on the site do nowadays is organise smaller group rides via PM with people they have ridden with and found to be similar to their riding style or people they can trust on the road.

The group who frequent 22 do this and there hasn't been an incident on any of the rides I have been on with them.

Some people cruise, some ride at pace, but the point of most group rides is shooting shit at the end over a pie not picking people out of the scenery.

[SwanTiger]

Well said Shaun and Ixion, I have observed many things on the numerous rides that I have been on and you've hit the nail on the head with both of your comments.

[beyond]

Some people cruise, some ride at pace, but the point of most group rides is shooting shit at the end over a pie not picking people out of the scenery.

Mate, you should use that line as your signature. Great one liner

[Donor]

Rant Rant, Waffle etc...(I'm too lazy to edit it down... Donor)

Why ride in a pack?

Because we're pack animals at heart for starters.

Because safety in numbers is good.

Because testosterone (with a little estrogen on the side) is best served in larg quantities.

Because let's face it, it's a skill that needs to be learned.

Because learning can only be done through action.

Because we bloody can.

As has been said, a controlled ride is a safe ride. Ask the 20+ bodies we had on the last 250 ride. Many of whom had never seen so many bikes in one place let alone joined in a group ride. Hell, my first was a toy run. All it too was an old hand giving my a bit of wise counsel and I was fine.

[Drunken Monkey]

... but ever since I joined this board, I keep reading about this and that crash on a group ride, they are fuckin dangerous because...

... and that the high average % will all but guarantee more crashes and injury and possible more loss of life, based on the last 12 months of things I have read?

In all fairness (and this has been discussed a few times before), I don't beleive there has been an increase in accidents, but instead KB gives people an increased awareness of accidents. It's not like people haven't crashed or been killed on rides before the internet.

Sorry- I cannot show you links and facts and statistics to back this up
...

...and in fairness I can't back myself up with stats either.

[ceebie13]

Must admit, I'm not a big fan of large group rides per say. But I am a fan of the "gathering" and "camaraderie" that goes with it. The whole biking thing for me is about building friendships with like-minded people and sharing the enjoyment of riding out at the same time. Having said that, being out in the wop wops with the road to yourself is the perfect detox after a hard week stroking the cat...er, sorry, working. I feel uncomfortable being hemmed in and following like a little duckling so if I do tag along with a large group, I will bugger off and rejoin the group at the pub!

Back in Blighty, I did some long weekend rides organised by Bike Magazine which would hop over the channel and head to a hotel about 350k from Calais. On those occasions you were given detailed "tulip" diagrams which plotted the route (mainly on back roads) using words and symbols and indicated the approximate arrival time at stops on the route. There would be perhaps 70+ bikes on such a trip. Mostly, people would split into smaller groups or even ride alone at their own pace, but you can imagine what it was like when these 70 bikes piled off the ferry and were suddenly faced with riding on the wrong side of the road!

[Vagabond]

Well, from what many call an oldy on this site, that's me

I do love the group rides. You meet some awesome people and have a lot of fun. I meet heaps of riders from all backgrounds and experience levels.


BUT, when on a group ride, no matter how hard you try and how many resolutions you make, the facts are that we ride harder than we should for most conditions. I think if we are all honest, we generally would have to admit that.

I have seen people speed up when overtaken and know full well they haven't got the skills yet to maintain the sort of pace they end up going. Their lines go to pieces, there rear end starts fishtailing into corners and it's a matter of time.

Also, it is common to sse that when you tuck in behind someone and are happy with the pace, the person in front thinks they are moving too slow and then start to speed up, pushing themselves more than they should.

I'm recounting what I have observed. The risk element is increased greatly on large group rides.


So, in short, group rides have a much larger element of risk for sure. Perhaps many of the incidents that have happened over the years, would not have happened if two or three like minded individuals who know each others skills well were just riding together at their normal pace.

Just being totally and brutally honest here. I love the group rides but if lives can be saved by keeping numbers down to real small amounts, then we need to reconsider and maybe meet at a designated point for lunch, a chat and then split into smaller groups again riding at comfortable paces.

Not stirring, just calling the shots as I've seen them.

Got to agree with you whole heartedly there Beyond and Shaun!

Ever since my major on a KB run:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...light=Vagabond

Iv'e basically tried to stay away from these runs although I have partaken in a few and even copped some name calling for slowing down too much for certain corners. But in saying that I've learnt to ride as hard as I can for as far as I can see, sure I've slowed down slightly from the old days but some of my mates still think I ride f-ing fast!

Anyway I now prefer to ride with my regular mates as we all know what to expect from each other and there's nobody creeping up your bum or overtaking regularly on any corner, in short we all know our place and all riders know where we're going to and still have a jolly good yarn at either end!

[Shaun]

Glad to see there are others that feel the same way or simillar

I am going to but out of this now as I am not a road rider, but are a true Biker and want you all to ride safe and enjoy the real buzz of bikes and biker people

Later

[jonbuoy]

I've gotta agree with you there Shaun. Lemming mentality can take over in group rides "If he can make past the car it so can I" I've ridden on group rides but haven't felt comfortable because of the unpredictability of other riders. The only nice thing about hanging in the pack is that your unlikely to get busted for speeding. Nice to tag along with one or two riders occaisionally though.

[imdying]

Too lazy to read the thread... but here's my 2c.

Don't ride with ego driven cock suckers who think chicken strip size is the be all and end all of riding bikes. Don't let them goad you if you do, and ffs, man up and ride your own pace instead of hurtling after them outside your comfort zone. If they give you stick about being last to the meeting place, fuck em, they're not your friends, they don't care about you at all.

We have some pricks like that in Chch, I don't (won't) ride with them. Good chance they'll end up dead, and I won't bother going to their funerals. My only worry is that I know new riders go out with them. I've also seen slower riders bin it trying to keep pace.

Real mates won't leave you behind.

[Blairos]

Too lazy to read the thread... but here's my 2c.

Don't ride with ego driven cock suckers who think chicken strip size is the be all and end all of riding bikes. Don't let them goad you if you do, and ffs, man up and ride your own pace instead of hurtling after them outside your comfort zone. .. I've also seen slower riders bin it trying to keep pace.

Real mates won't leave you behind.

Right on the money there - what you refer to is a thing called "Self Control" - exercise this, chances are you wont get goaded outside of your comfort zone

[Scouse]

Hi Mate,

NO, I used and abused this thread ( Sorry ) Because I really trythfully believe that our mates would still be here today with out these fuckin things going on

I have aggonised all week long about how to start a thread on this very subject, and then there was the title I needed to hijack because I did not have the balls to stand up and say what I really wanted to on my own! and most of you do not even know me ( The real me)

And I applaud your decision to not organise any more of them, and I really hope a lot more people start pressuring others to stop them.

Well said Shaun because you have just made me think the same way, that instead of posting a Coro loop ride on the calender and seeing how many people I can get to come along I should just pm say 5 or 6 ofthe people I enjoy riding with the most. the last Coro ride I organised had more than 40 bikes turn out, although it was a great day over all rideing, with 5 to 6 others would acheive the same result. I guess I have been guilty in the Past of treating how many bikes that turn out as a Defacto popularity contest.
Shaun again thank you for making the penny drop
Steve
ps tried to bling but I must spread more to others