Age vs performance:

[AllanB]

write to the government - I have on this very matter. Yes to restricted cars for new drivers and yes to raising the driving age.

[Moxy]

You missed my point completely. Some old biddy's perception of what constitutes lawful behaviour does not give her the right to request the potential injury or death of another individual. That individual could be you commuting to work.

Also, there were tons of cases where a person was prosecuted for some crime, their court case lasted for months or years, they were put in prison for years, only to find out years later that they were innocent all along, then released with a "sorry" and a destroyed life.

Disabling somebodys engine like above could potentially result in serious injury - is the grandparent poster (RT527) sure that the chance of human error, or prejudice in conviction is so low that it's worth crippling somebody?

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

As part of the pull over proceedure... the first thing the cop should do is to obtain the keys to the vehicle, if all ok the cop hands back and sends on merry way... That would stop the ones that try to run after they have been pulled over...

However disabling the engine while in motion would cause other unforseeable problems

[Ixion]

Or follow the Yank practice "Please step out of the car , Sir, keeping your hands in plain view". More difficult here though where the cops don't have the "or, bang bang" option.

Wouldn't be too hard though for the cop to do the "step out of the car" thing on his loud hailer. And maybe a law change making it illegal not to. If they don't cop can assume the worst.

[doc]

For fucks sake people who wants more laws ? Fixes nothing they have trouble enforceing the laws they have now, they are only thought of after the event. This is called Evolution things are going to happen like this and probably more often until nature/Darwin cleans out the gene pool. Pointless wasting your effort talking about it sort of like talk back radio. Get on your bike and go for a ride nice day for it, I've been and might go for another.

[Waylander]

That is part of it too though, being made to face the consequences of your actions. If it just gets ignored, you're not paying for your mistakes. Video games help with this mentality.

I heard a story about a couple of young kids playing. The little boy slipped & went through a glass window. His sister was "get up johnny, we'll go get you an energy bar" (as per games), she couldn't understand that he was seriously hurt & had to go to hospital. From memory they were around 10.

Society is doing this to itself, aided by finance companies. It doesn't help when people you respect go on about how fast they've driven/ridden.

we can't change the law, but we can change our mindset. Leave the speed for trackdays, both cars & bikes.

I'm getting tired of people blaming video games. I grew up playing vid-games and I'm fairly normal. I even know several young kids that play them and they know the difference between reality and fantasy.

Ask why would a kid not know the difference and you'll get the real problem. Parents are expecting things like TV, Movies, School teachers and such to raise their kids for them. And the welfare state of this country is only making a lot of parents even lazier. Now they don't have to get jobs to survive.

Sad thing really that mankind has stepped out of natural selection and the lazy ones keep breeding into more lazy ones, while the rest of us have to work harder to support them.

[James Deuce]

Parents are expecting things like TV, Movies, School teachers and such to raise their kids for them. And the welfare state of this country is only making a lot of parents even lazier. Now they don't have to get jobs to survive.

I'm getting tired of being held up as an example of why "the kids" aren't OK.

Once again for those of you slow of learning - I as a parent am not responsible for creating the minority of kids who create the majority of headlines. I am tired of the word parent being used as an insult. I hope that when you have the opportunity to "parent" that every decision you make and every direction you give your child works exactly as you want it to. It won't. The successful vs unsuccessful direction runs at about a ratio of 20-1 in favour of unsuccessful.

If you want a "reason", you would do better to try and review the development of a society where both parents are expected to work thanks to the creation of an economy that demands that both parents work to maintain a reasonable standard of living. How about a Prime Minister that wants to remove males from any position of responsibility in regard to child raising or who publicly states that she wants all women in the workforce - whether that is a good thing for child development, maintaining an adult relationship, or even economically thanks to the cost of childcare.

Some of the little bastards out there aren't a product of their family either. Everyone is quite happy to quote the person who rises above their circumstances in spite of their upbringing but no one seems willing to acknowledge that there are at least as many kids with everything going for them, including parents who are pretty damn good at parenting, who are just dicks, and not because they are spoiled either.

I agree whole heartedly with your comments about video games though. 20 years ago it was TV. 30-50 years ago it was that damn Rock Music and those darn reefers. Before that it was absinthe. Before that it was Whiskey. Before that it was Gin.

[Waylander]

I'm getting tired of being held up as an example of why "the kids" aren't OK.

Once again for those of you slow of learning - I as a parent am not responsible for creating the minority of kids who create the majority of headlines. I am tired of the word parent being used as an insult. I hope that when you have the opportunity to "parent" that every decision you make and every direction you give your child works exactly as you want it to. It won't. The successful vs unsuccessful direction runs at about a ratio of 20-1 in favour of unsuccessful.

If you want a "reason", you would do better to try and review the development of a society where both parents are expected to work thanks to the creation of an economy that demands that both parents work to maintain a reasonable standard of living. How about a Prime Minister that wants to remove males from any position of responsibility in regard to child raising or who publicly states that she wants all women in the workforce - whether that is a good thing for child development, maintaining an adult relationship, or even economically thanks to the cost of childcare.

Some of the little bastards out there aren't a product of their family either. Everyone is quite happy to quote the person who rises above their circumstances in spite of their upbringing but no one seems willing to acknowledge that there are at least as many kids with everything going for them, including parents who are pretty damn good at parenting, who are just dicks, and not because they are spoiled either.

I agree whole heartedly with your comments about video games though. 20 years ago it was TV. 30-50 years ago it was that damn Rock Music and those darn reefers. Before that it was absinthe. Before that it was Whiskey. Before that it was Gin.

Perhaps I generalized a bit much there. Not all parents are lazy as you point out Jim and not all shit head kids are the cause of the parents either but a majority of them seem to come from families on the dole whose adults are usually drinking alot (as in near every night and day) and barely pay attention to thier kids or let them get away with anything.

I'm not a father yet but I hope to be one day and I already know that when my son/daughter does something stupid I will show them the error of thier ways just as my father did for me. They may hate me when I do but atleast I wont be adding to the drain on society. And maybe one day they may realize that I was doing them a favor.

[Krayy]

As part of the pull over proceedure... the first thing the cop should do is to obtain the keys to the vehicle, if all ok the cop hands back and sends on merry way... That would stop the ones that try to run after they have been pulled over...

However disabling the engine while in motion would cause other unforseeable problems

The tech has been around for ages to remote disable on board ECUs via radio signals. I believe that most of these systems will not cause the wheels to lock, but will enable the "driver" (or "f**kwit") to pull over a sthe power fades, similar to running out of gas. If the powers that be would get a clue, making these kinds of ECUs de-riguer on all modified vehicles it could save a lot of lives.

Also, in Europe they use speed recoirders for all heavy vehicles which can be used to write up tickets for excessive speeds obver the last 24 hours. Modern ECUs can record a heap of info and retrospective toicketing might be a damn good idea. And f**k the question of who was driving, just give it to the owner.

[Bonez]

And f**k the question of who was driving, just give it to the owner.

So if someone was speeding in your vehicle you'd be quite happy to pay the fine?

[rwh]

Or follow the Yank practice "Please step out of the car , Sir, keeping your hands in plain view". More difficult here though where the cops don't have the "or, bang bang" option.

Wouldn't be too hard though for the cop to do the "step out of the car" thing on his loud hailer. And maybe a law change making it illegal not to. If they don't cop can assume the worst.

Can they?

I read a story where the cops went knocking on the door of a suspect. No answer. They were pretty sure the guy was in there, so knocked the door down. Banged on the bedroom door. Still no answer. Charged in and kicked the guy roughly out of bed, hands behind his back etc.

Turned out the guy they wanted was the next house; this guy was deaf.

Do you want to require a big sticker on the back of the car if the driver can't walk? Can't hear? Can't find his seatbelt buckle?

Richard
(How does that work btw? How do you get to your seatbelt buckle while keeping your hands in plain view?)
[story from 'People of the Eye' Rachel McKee/BWB 2001, paraphrased from memory]

[Swoop]

Perhaps stricter enforcement, and harsher penalties would be a better approach.

Perhaps automatic impoundment of the vehicle in such cases would be salutary?

I think it is far too simple to get ones licence back when it has been taken away from a driver.
Perhaps a session of re-education is needed before it is simply handed back.

"Off to the Gulag with him!"

I'm getting tired of people blaming video games. I grew up playing vid-games and I'm fairly normal.

I'm terrified of space invaders landing before my fortresses are destroyed by their vertically firing missiles...

[sunhuntin]

i disagree with restricting bikes to 125 singles. i know a lot of 125s and 250s can go a lot faster than, say, a harley. honestly, id feel safer learning on a harley than anything like the 250 sprotsbikes. weight to power, harleys are the slower end of the spectrum.
i do agree with restricting cars though...specially for 15 year olds/learners of any age. also, raise the age they can get a full license, so they cant do like this 16 year old and take passengers.

[RT527]

You missed my point completely. Some old biddy's perception of what constitutes lawful behaviour does not give her the right to request the potential injury or death of another individual. That individual could be you commuting to work.

No I didnt miss your point...just debating the point about people being responsible for THEIR actions.....my opinion may not match many other people on here and I would never advocate deliberatly hurting someone else, But had there been an immobilisation device on a lot of vehicles who have done a runner then there would still be an awful amount of people alive today.
Remember I`m talking worse case scenario ie: bad crim robs a bank jumps in car with police in hot pursuit......for all of what 200 mtres as the grinning cop sits and pushes the code to immobilise vehicle...I can see lots of problems tho around that issue too....Like car with no plates, once car stops whats to stop him taking a hostage etc etc....I only had an Idea ..and an opinion and dont expect a lecture on the wrongs and rights of what if poor little johnny whos running from the police after hes killed someone gets hurt whilest being disabled by the law whos there to Protect us, also if a bike lowsides chances of someone in a car which is struck by the bike surviving are extremely high as the bike will in most instances go under the front of the car......but your talking about corners Im suggesting that they probably wouldnt even make it to a corner, but hey , if it saves 5 out of 7 lives I would be prepared to accept that , better than 7 out of 7 innocents being maimed or killed ...shit the police are not allowed to run a vehicle off the road in case they hurt the poor driver.


Man we all need to Harden up and take responsibility for our actions.

If i run from the law ...crash and kill myself then it is my fault ...if i run and kill someone else its still my fault not the police , not my mother father brother ......it would be my decision to do it ( which is something that I would not do.)

[RT527]

is the grandparent poster (RT527) sure that the chance of human error, or prejudice in conviction is so low that it's worth crippling somebody?

OK so the guy whos doing a runner is completly innocent of doing no wrong , thought failing to pull over for a police officer an offence and as for the grandparent part , I take that as an insult, Im younger than Jim2 and have probably seen more carnage on the roads than youd like too.but i still think responsibility still lies with the person breaking the law...so its ok now to run from the cops because they`ll give up chasing you if you go over 140 is it.

Just thought of something...You can put a gun in someones hand but the gun cant fire itself with the safety on !!!