Age vs performance:

[Waylander]

LOL!!! no im not implying boys are the only idiot drivers... shit we all know some women are shockers!!
In terms of the whole 'boy racer''girl racer''teenage' thing... the majority are boys wearing hoodies with pants that are halfway around their ankles... oh and a hat to the side too lol...

Just gotta look at the newspapers/statistics... its the boys that are writing themselves and their mates off in their cars...

EDIT: the girls just get drunk n pregnant at 16...

Nice stir

lol yea I know as I said in another thread somewhere, there are times I'm ashamed of being a young male in this country.

Are you gonna be at Busa Pete's party?

But you have a point Waylander. When commuting I find that truck and van drivers (irrespective of gender) move over to let you by where women driving private vehicles change lanes into you, and generally seem to be doing anything except concentrating on driving.

Pastybee witnessed an incident where the women actually changed lanes, hit me and then continued to try and push me into the barrier while looking right at me with her mouth open. Her windows were all mostly obscured with internal condensation.

I wasn't even lane splitting at the time.

It is something that happens a lot (to me anyway) when traveling on the motorway in peak times and I usually avoid those incidents before they develop by keeping a close eye on vehicle body language and moving about as much as possible, staying ahead of peripheral vision zones.

lol funny that. I've never had a close call while lanesplitting but when politely sitting in a lane like the rest of the world a car will unknowingly (or maybe they do know) do something stupid that puts me at risk.

I would rather risk my own life than someone else risk it for me.

[crack]

All good stuff:

I like the throttle slide Idea! (give that man a DB)

I use the young male as a yard stick, but on speaking to a AMBO and a Cop friend, they inform me that the young lady of today is just as likely to own a sport twin turbo and drive pissed, as is a male, anyone want to comment on this?

As I read I see that I wasn't the only stupid prick in my youth, but as said, we didn't have stuff that could do 250+kph! shit and old Morris 8, 65 mph, old Vauxhall 14 with back door removed, rear seat out, T 20 carried to meetings in this manner, and dickie seat in the boot for piss drinking mates? shit only 70 mph,?

The legislation, whatever, needs to be simple and inexpensively managed, IE: No Rotary engines, no turbo charged engines say to age 25: and then only if someone had been to a defensive driving course, and been driving for an amount of time that signals a suitable level of experiance.

Limit the size of the Car, to an age and experiance level.

Limit the performance of the bike to an age and experiance level:

The age and experiance level gets displayed with a colour sticker:

If a Copper suspects the machine may have more performance that the rider/driver is entitled, the copper tests it, yes he gets in with a hand held GPS, and drives it, if he is right the machine gets confiscated and sold by police auction.

IF this happens, the perpetrator cannot drive on the public road again until an age of 25.

When my old man took my motorbike off me, by giving it to someone I didn't know, shit it hurt, I had to ride a pushbike to work, all my work mates asking what happened to your motorbike???? shit this lasted a two weeks period:

I have never ever spoken to him in the manner for which he took it off me for.

( Never found out where he put it)

Fines, just do not work, take the machinary away, a few lossing their jobs because thay cannot get to work, or can't get their pregnant girl friend to the hospital? this is the level it has to be aimed at.

Shit to reinforce the responsibility thing I would give them a fine for every day they arrived late for work, or a weeks extension to the license suspension.

I do not know, only ramblings, but if there is a POLITICIAN amongst the members of this site, or a copper,or an ambo, how about relaying a bit of the heart ache you see ?

One thing is definate, we all want the same thing from the postings, just have to arrive at a solution and F---ing well pitch it.

I have seen the absolute grief and devastation, and have heard the words, IF ONLY, 100% of the time it is the survivors either injured, or Parents and siblings that pay the price, and yes the Pregnent Mother to be, and a little gift, that will never know his/her Daddy/Mummy.

Sound corny?

[Lou Girardin]

If a Copper suspects the machine may have more performance that the rider/driver is entitled, the copper tests it, yes he gets in with a hand held GPS, and drives it, if he is right the machine gets confiscated and sold by police auction.

This is totally impractical on many levels.
Most cops don't have bike licences.
You can't test performance and hold a GPS at the same time.
A GPS doesn't measure acceleration.
The courts may not find that a cop is an expert in vehicle performance testing.
Ad infinitum.

A power to weight ratio based on manufacturers specs is the best answer.
If a cop suspects the vehicle has been modified, and this could be something as obvious as a big bore exhaust, externally venting wastegate or pod air cleaner, it should be sent to a vehicle testing facility to be checked. As they will do for excessively noisy exhausts. A tolerance of 20% will account for normal performance variations between similar vehicles. Exemptions should be available, but reasonably uncommon, to allow for situations where a restricted driver has no option but to use a non-compliant family vehicle. Eg. Rural families.
Any breach results in confiscation and sale of the vehicle. No other penalty.

[Ixion]

The law already requires any modification that affects the engine (including exhausts, headers, ECUs etc) to undergo small volume compliance, unless the power increase (if any) is less than +20%. The differences we are talking about here, between the power of vehicles inexperienced drivers have access to at present, and what might be considered appropriate, are large. The effect of a big bore exhaust (other than in nuisance factor) is not going to matter.

Just use the aussie system. A list of approved vehicles for novices.

Grandfather anything earlier than , say, 1980. The rare high performance car of early days will not come into the hands of kids. Allow any naturally aspirated engine of less than Y cc, then list any other allowed vehicles. It doesn't have to list every possible model, just the reasonably common ones.If you are a novice and the car you yearn for isn't on the list, tough. Sorted.

[Skyryder]

I'm getting tired of being held up as an example of why "the kids" aren't OK.

Once again for those of you slow of learning - I as a parent am not responsible for creating the minority of kids who create the majority of headlines. I am tired of the word parent being used as an insult. I hope that when you have the opportunity to "parent" that every decision you make and every direction you give your child works exactly as you want it to. It won't. The successful vs unsuccessful direction runs at about a ratio of 20-1 in favour of unsuccessful.

If you want a "reason", you would do better to try and review the development of a society where both parents are expected to work thanks to the creation of an economy that demands that both parents work to maintain a reasonable standard of living. How about a Prime Minister that wants to remove males from any position of responsibility in regard to child raising or who publicly states that she wants all women in the workforce - whether that is a good thing for child development, maintaining an adult relationship, or even economically thanks to the cost of childcare.

Some of the little bastards out there aren't a product of their family either. Everyone is quite happy to quote the person who rises above their circumstances in spite of their upbringing but no one seems willing to acknowledge that there are at least as many kids with everything going for them, including parents who are pretty damn good at parenting, who are just dicks, and not because they are spoiled either.

I agree whole heartedly with your comments about video games though. 20 years ago it was TV. 30-50 years ago it was that damn Rock Music and those darn reefers. Before that it was absinthe. Before that it was Whiskey. Before that it was Gin.

You just got my vote for post of the year. Take note some of you and FRAME IT FOR FUTURE REFERANCE.


Skyryder

[Motu]

Take a look at the cars these kids are totaling in a really big way - most of them would fit within your learner restriction plans.You have all told me my NX Coupe is not a performance car - let me loose on city streets with the pedal to the metal and I could wrap it around a powerpole so both ends meet on the other side.

Make them drive a Lada 2104 until they are 25.

[Ixion]

Perhaps though the benefit would come, not from the actual horsepower or speed limitation (after all, you can kill yourself at 100kph easily enough), but rather from defusing the "focus" on speed and performance. In bike terms, if novice riders were restricted to GN250s it is unlikely there would be much a "boi-racer" culture develop.

In the present environment, possession of a more powerful, faster car than others has become a "proving you're a man (or woman!) " thing. And of course once the claims are made "my car is faster than yours, I can drive faster than you", then the next thing is proving the claims.

When I was a kid it wasn't just the outright lack of performance from the cars we had , it was the fact that trying to prove how fast you were in a Morrie Minor just made you look silly.

[scumdog]

A power to weight ratio based on manufacturers specs is the best answer.
If a cop suspects the vehicle has been modified, and this could be something as obvious as a big bore exhaust, externally venting wastegate or pod air cleaner, it should be sent to a vehicle testing facility to be checked. As they will do for excessively noisy exhausts. A tolerance of 20% will account for normal performance variations between similar vehicles. Exemptions should be available, but reasonably uncommon, to allow for situations where a restricted driver has no option but to use a non-compliant family vehicle. Eg. Rural families.
Any breach results in confiscation and sale of the vehicle. No other penalty.

And then there would be rampant applications for the exemptions as mentioned by you Lou, where Dad has a modified vehicle and daughter needs to drive to crochet classes......

[Motu]

You are making a good case for the Lada....

[nadroj]

Common sence
Appropriate education
Self dicipline
Appropriate penalties - may be basic military training

The main thing is to keep it simple

[crack]

[QUOTE=Lou Girardin;877050]This is totally impractical on many levels.
Most cops don't have bike licences.
You can't test performance and hold a GPS at the same time.
A GPS doesn't measure acceleration.
The courts may not find that a cop is an expert in vehicle performance testing.

#1 Well there in lies part of the policing problem:

#2 You do not have to hold the GPS, It can be placed on the dash, or seat, the Antenae could be on the dash, or cable and magnetic base and just placed on the roof:

#3 Yes it does see thread title.

#4 Criteria set down by legislation, the vehicle either meets it or it doesn/t.

[Lou Girardin]

[QUOTE=crack;877977]

This is totally impractical on many levels.
Most cops don't have bike licences.
You can't test performance and hold a GPS at the same time.
A GPS doesn't measure acceleration.
The courts may not find that a cop is an expert in vehicle performance testing.

#1 Well there in lies part of the policing problem:

#2 You do not have to hold the GPS, It can be placed on the dash, or seat, the Antenae could be on the dash, or cable and magnetic base and just placed on the roof:

#3 Yes it does see thread title.

#4 Criteria set down by legislation, the vehicle either meets it or it doesn/t.

You said "handheld".
For the rest, you need to check the reality of enforcement and law. All your proposal would do is enrichen more lawyers.

[Pixie]

The problem is they sometimes take others with them.

Sterilization I agree with though. Bit tough to dish out willy nilly though. Use it in place of the death sentence... take some of their swimmers on ice, on the off chance at a later date they are proven to be innocent because it does happen, and then sterlize them. This is of course on top of the regular sentence.

Willy nilly sterilisation.
Is that via removal of the male member?
Is "willy nilly" latin for "no penis"?