Age vs performance:

[crack]

Guess we have all heard on the news about the young kids killed in a high speed accident/loss of control in Auckland on Friday night.
This got me thinking, and I can say in all honesty that this sort of thing was rare in my age groups day, not saying it didn't happen, but it was rare to run away from the police, as they had more powerful cars, or bikes than we had,
IE: Honda 50's, Suzuki 250's, morris 1000, vauxhall 14's, and the like>
If we wanted a car or bike to go faster, you had to hot it up, we were 15-16 year old's.
Yes we use to drink & drive, if stopped the copper new you, and your Dad, and your boss, took your keys, gave you a clip around the ear and took you home, with a warning, let me catch you again and I won't be so nice?.
Shit you were afraid to challenge that.

Now a young kid (thats all we were just kids) can get a 250 bike that will do 200 plus Km/h, or a imported twin turbo car that will give 250 Km/h a nudge.

Roads are more congested:

Now what I wish to ask is this:

How many of you think it is time for age vs performance to be legislated:
EG: Up to age 20 no cage of a capacity greater than 1300cc, and none turbo charged.
EG: Up to age 20 no bike above 125cc, and only one cylinder:

These examples are only examples to bounce about, and get feed back,
IE: age could be altered, some one may come up with another way.

Floors open, what do you think:

[Lou Girardin]

I agree that there should be restrictions, but it should be based on power to weight ratios. That would allow new riders to have larger less powerful bikes like 883 Sportsters etc.
The main catch that I can see is that heavy, but aerodynamically efficient cars could still be capable of reasonably high speed.

[bull]

ive always thought that putting a governor on all engines to limit to 100km/h as per speed limit would be a wise idea - then the cops could have no governor and voila - cant outrun the cops so no point trying.
As with everything the downfall will be that people will mod it to remove the governor, like people will get bigger engines than allowed too.

I liek the idea of having limits on the vehicles available but should be more relevant to persons experience - alot of young drivers whom are doing rally racing and track racing whom i would allow to be exempt from limited car CC rating due to experience, same with bikes - alot of farm and offroad riders whom should be exempt.

Very hard to find something that will suit the majority when you really think about it, but at least we are thinking about it....

Found the best governor for my car and bike is my wife and three kids, i cruise at the 100-109km/h and no faster.

[Ixion]

.. should be more relevant to persons experience - alot of young drivers whom are doing rally racing and track racing whom i would allow to be exempt from limited car CC rating due to experience, same with bikes - alot of farm and offroad riders whom should be exempt.

...

I disagree with this logic. Assuming that there are to be limits at all (on which I have an open mind), I do not think that racing or off road experience should qualify for an exemption. Indeed, I would argue the reverse, those are the very youngsters who most need to be restricted.

The problem with young drivers is not any lack of ability to DRIVE. They all know how to make the car go, and often are very skilled at it. It is a lack of "don't do stupid shit" ability. A lack of roadcraft, a lack of appreciation of consequences, a "I'm ten foot tall, I can make a car do anything and I'm invulnerable" attitude. And none of this is helped by experience in racing or rally driving. In fact, a young driver with such experience is more likely than most to believe that he can do anything on the road. Because he has "racing skillz".

We see it with motorcyclists, the "road is my racetrack" attitude. And car drivers are no different. I will opine that the most dangerous rider or driver on the road is the young person with the idea that he's a shit hot racer.

[doc]

This is one of those pointless discussions, years of social engineering has caused a myriad of problems.The Kahui twins were the tip of the iceberg there is a generation of kids being bought up out there with the same problem. You cant fix that problem overnight or at all really. They still breed not worrying about the consequences. Look at Africa.

[Bonez]

Roads are more congested:

Now what I wish to ask is this:

How many of you think it is time for age vs performance to be legislated:
EG: Up to age 20 no cage of a capacity greater than 1300cc, and none turbo charged.
EG: Up to age 20 no bike above 125cc, and only one cylinder:

These examples are only examples to bounce about, and get feed back,
IE: age could be altered, some one may come up with another way.

Floors open, what do you think:

Good points. I don't think single cylinder 125cc is a good idea. I personnally think the 250 is fine. Maybe broken down to limiting to twin cylinder 4 strokes. 4 cylinder and 2-stroke 250s for those that have completed advanced riding courses and a few kms under there belts possibly (don't know how you'd monitor this). I would'nt want anybody to ride/drive a vehicle that could do the current speed limit with a bit in reserve when needed. May another test/refresher for anything over 400cc like some other contries have.

Cars 1300cc fuel injected cars depending on age of the vehicle. 1500cc prior to about 1990.

Self control is a big factor I think. Lack of common sense and peer pressure or perceived peer pressure is a problem. But they've always been around.

[RT527]

Just have a cut out tied to your rego number...do something wrong , mr plod calls in rego....comms come back with an id tag number for the electronic engine cut out, enter it into there gps run Transmitter and 5 secs later your rolling to a stop.

Same could be done for stolen cars, you come out find your Bike/car/Truck missing...pull out cellphone ....enter code ,then wait for it to be found.

[Bonez]

Just have a cut out tied to your rego number...do something wrong , mr plod calls in rego....comms come back with an id tag number for the electronic engine cut out, enter it into there gps run Transmitter and 5 secs later your rolling to a stop.

Thank goodness I ride old shitters.

[Ixion]

Just have a cut out tied to your rego number...do something wrong , mr plod calls in rego....comms come back with an id tag number for the electronic engine cut out, enter it into there gps run Transmitter and 5 secs later your rolling to a stop.

Same could be done for stolen cars, you come out find your Bike/car/Truck missing...pull out cellphone ....enter code ,then wait for it to be found.

Unless this were incorporated into a CDI or immobiliser from the factory it would not be hard to bypass. So once again, it would only work on the law abiding, who are not the target audience.

The ones for stolen vehicles already exist, they would be more practical, because a car theif is not going to have time (or patience) to spend bypasing it.

[Dutchee]

My male cousins were good at doing dumb shit as teenagers. One cousin came screaming down our drive, parked his bike, ran off over to his place (we had a bridge between our homes). Cops figured out which drive (we were on a right of way), saw the bike ticking away & asked whose it was. Ah, that's my nephews, says dad. Don't know what he'd done.
Another time, either him or one of his brothers, along with a mate, decided to smoke out some quail at Waikumete Cemetery. When it was a good fire & totally out of control they high-tailed it back to his place, where his father found out what they'd done & took them to the cop shop.

That is part of it too though, being made to face the consequences of your actions. If it just gets ignored, you're not paying for your mistakes. Video games help with this mentality.

I heard a story about a couple of young kids playing. The little boy slipped & went through a glass window. His sister was "get up johnny, we'll go get you an energy bar" (as per games), she couldn't understand that he was seriously hurt & had to go to hospital. From memory they were around 10.

Society is doing this to itself, aided by finance companies. It doesn't help when people you respect go on about how fast they've driven/ridden.

we can't change the law, but we can change our mindset. Leave the speed for trackdays, both cars & bikes.

[terbang]

I disagree with this logic. Assuming that there are to be limits at all (on which I have an open mind), I do not think that racing or off road experience should qualify for an exemption. Indeed, I would argue the reverse, those are the very youngsters who most need to be restricted.

The problem with young drivers is not any lack of ability to DRIVE. They all know how to make the car go, and often are very skilled at it. It is a lack of "don't do stupid shit" ability. A lack of roadcraft, a lack of appreciation of consequences, a "I'm ten foot tall, I can make a car do anything and I'm invulnerable" attitude. And none of this is helped by experience in racing or rally driving. In fact, a young driver with such experience is more likely than most to believe that he can do anything on the road. Because he has "racing skillz".

We see it with motorcyclists, the "road is my racetrack" attitude. And car drivers are no different. I will opine that the most dangerous rider or driver on the road is the young person with the idea that he's a shit hot racer.

Bang on there my good man. Track riding develops good handling skills for the track but not necessarily good road skills which involves a lot more consideration of self control. Something teenagers rarely have..!

[James Deuce]

Governors and cut outs would be more dangerous than a drunk driver, especially with the average Kiwi's attitude to driving:

1. I have a right to drive the way I want.
2. I have a right to get everywhere "first" and therefore reserve the right to overtake you at the worst possible moment.
3. My car is a weapon and I will threaten you with it if you appear to be better than me at right No. 2 (see above).
4. The Police are only on the roads to raise revenue.
5. Thanks to advances in US television medical dramas, everything can be fixed and no one dies.

You cannot impose those restrictions on people who didn't start driving with them in place already and not expect mass carnage. Imagine three people side by side arriving at the end of an overtaking lane all side by side and refusing to give way to anyone because they have to win. All traveling at the same imposed maximum speed.

Imagine someone on a big sprotsbike, just winding the throttle on on the way out of a corner when Mr Plod nails the immobiliser remotely thanks to Doris Doogood complaining about that young man leaning his motorcycle over to go round corners. Chassis attitude alters radically thanks to 100HP being removed from the drive line. Front tyre gets overwhelmed and our lad lowsides into oncoming traffic.

[car]

Just have a cut out tied to your rego number...do something wrong , mr plod calls in rego....comms come back with an id tag number for the electronic engine cut out, enter it into there gps run Transmitter and 5 secs later your rolling to a stop.

Why bother disabling vehicles? Just tattoo a barcode on the back of everyone's neck, stick an RFID tag in their skull and, when the lawgivers decide that someone has done something they don't like, they can just broadcast a signal to a small pacemaker device in the miscreant's chest and disrupt their heartbeat.

Then it would work in many more situations: if the evildoer were escaping on foot, screwing your wife, reading an unapproved book, being black etc.

[Fub@r]

How many of you think it is time for age vs performance to be legislated:
EG: Up to age 20 no cage of a capacity greater than 1300cc, and none turbo charged.
EG: Up to age 20 no bike above 125cc, and only one cylinder:

1300cc car would be a good idea, but they will still be able to jump in to a 13B Rotary and do well 200kph. With cars I think the laws that be assume that the insurance industry will regulate it as no insurance = no finance. But then you get the dipshit parents who buy the cars for their kids.

As for a 125cc limit they could always get a 2 stroke, or make them ride 250cc Ginny's they only good for 100kph

[granma2]

I totally agree. Any learner driver, restricted licence driver or under 20yr old should not have a cage over 1300cc and with no modifications. If Police even suspect the car is modified they have the right to impound. Parents should be accountable for any bad driving by teens.eg if your teen crashes and cant pay reparation, then the parents pay. If the parents cant pay,(even time payment) they go to jail. That covers the ones who dont care about their kids or where they are. Maybe parents wont buy their kids cars that are far too powerful for them. Or at the very least keep their 14-17yr old kids at home and out of a vehicle. Give teens something to look forward to as an adult.
Dealers should be accountable for selling a car over 1300cc to a young driver.
yes I know it would be harsh on the more responsible young drivers, but so was the change from getting a full licence immediatley to learners, restricted etc.
I had to get my learners etc after riding bikes for 36yrs. 10pm curfew sux, when your 46yrs old.
Life is good now that I have my full.