Age vs performance:

[Hillbilly]

Here in NSW, "P-paters" cannot own a high performance car or a V8. They lose their licence if caught because of all the accidents. They're as mad as hatters in their little jap cages.

Bike restrictions only apply to learners. After getting their "p-Plates" they're not allowed to ride after 10 PM (like cars) or carry a pillion. Even after getting a full licence, you're still not allowed to carry a pillion for a year.

[avgas]

While i like the concept, i dont like the maths.
CC rating is not going to work. as most kids drive mum/dads car. so unless you yourself is going to buy a 1300cc car there goes that theory.
Same with the 125 bikes. I think it should be compulsory that every learner ride a dual sport bike upto 200cc. Even if you dont ride off road the only have a top speed of 120. Where as my RG did 210 in a speed trial with only a few $$$'s spent on it.
16 year old should not be in cars, yes i know that pretty much everyone on here says that they could drive then - but the point being that until you are over 17 you are still a cocky dopey person. And have not yet experinced the fact that life isnt a party.

[TLDV8]

I think if i had to make the choice between being in a car with someone who drove at the speedlimit but had no experiance in dealing with a sudden stop or maintaining control due to loss of traction round a corner (for whatever reason) verses someone who had experianced these things in a controlled enviroment..ie had the repeated chance to cope with it until it became second nature,i would rather ride with them.
Most accidents are due to not knowing how to deal with a situation on the spot.
How many bikes go into a corner,the rider thinks they are going to fast,hits the brakes,goes straight ahead with only a prayer to save them.

I think it is long overdue that constructive training should be part and parcel of learning to drive/ride.
Being able to obtain a license at 15 is outdated and was fine for driving down on the farm 40 years ago.Times have changed and any new rules need to be blanket rules.Once they have if's and but's attached they are worthless.

[Meekey_Mouse]

[QUOTE]

It is a lack of "don't do stupid shit" ability. A lack of roadcraft, a lack of appreciation of consequences, a "I'm ten foot tall, I can make a car do anything and I'm invulnerable" attitude. And none of this is helped by experience in racing or rally driving. In fact, a young driver with such experience is more likely than most to believe that he can do anything on the road. Because he has "racing skillz".

Some might be like that but don't forget that if the person did do racing/ rally driving then no doubt he has had mates who have been killed/ injured there fore he/she will know how easy it is to slip up and that there are consequences.

We see it with motorcyclists, the "road is my racetrack" attitude. And car drivers are no different. I will opine that the most dangerous rider or driver on the road is the young person with the idea that he's a shit hot racer.

Totally agree with that

[Meekey_Mouse]

16 year old should not be in cars, yes i know that pretty much everyone on here says that they could drive then - but the point being that until you are over 17 you are still a cocky dopey person. And have not yet experinced the fact that life isnt a party.

Sorry a bit of a rant here....

Just because of other young morons that think they are all hot, then make stupid decisions and crash doesn't mean that then I should not be allowed to drive... because of their mistakes.

I'm 17, I have my full license and all the time I've been driving I have not been cocky. I know I'm only a kid and learning, although I've been driving for over 10 years. We use to own a farm, I learnt how to emergency brake in wet conditions, keep an eye out for things you can't always see like rabbit holes (comes in handy for pot holes) etc... I know the farm is not the same as the road, but my experiences there has greatly helped me on the road. So in my view I don't see why I should not be able to drive because of another persons mistake.

Rant over

[Ixion]

A good case could probably be made for setting the licence age for young men at 3 or 4 years higher than young women.

This is an option that is being considered at present by the Gubbernmint.

My (unscientific) obervation is that where young drivers are observed to be deficient , young male drivers are usually technically proficient but reckless. Young female drivers are more likely to be technically unskilled and inconsiderate on the roads, but not reckless.

Of course we must remember that many young people are good , careful, courteous drivers. In many cases more so than their elders.

We can see right here on this site examples of both the good and the bad.

So it might be thought harsh to punish the many for the derelictions of the few. Which is one reason why I have an open mind about changes to the present regime.

Perhaps stricter enforcement , and harsher penalties would be a better approach.

Young men are usually at their worst when they have mates in the car, showing off. The present restrictions on carrying passengers are widely ignored. Perhaps automatic impoundment of the vehicle in such cases would be salutary?

[SuperDave]

I think there should be power restriction to cars similar to what they are doing with bikes on learners and restricted. How to do this I'm unsure of as cc restrictions obviously have pitfalls ie 250 two strokes and 1300cc rotaries.
Electronic hp restrictions with severe punishment if caught driving a car/bike that is not restricted and against a condition on your licence is one way.

Though dunno how this will work because it sounds awfully hard to implement as well as police effectively.

However I don't think the solution lies in written restrictions and laws. I think these will only work to supplement a PROPER licence gaining process, not this bullshit testing process that we have at present. It's really a joke, it's way too easy to get a licence, be it learner, restricted or full.

The fact that it's so easy to get a licence here instantly translates into people (especially youth) not valueing their legality to drive, they treat it like shit because it's literally just been given to them on a plate - for fuckall work and a couple hundred dollars.

[oldrider]

there should be less laws and rules, harsher penalties, less loopholes in law, more consistent policing, more support for police, greater responsibility and accountability for judges and above all greater emphasis on "personal responsibility and accountability of the individual members of our society!"

Every adult in New Zealand should really take a good hard look at what contribution "they" make towards the standards of public behaviour that we have here today.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone of condemnation.

I am sure that I personally have contributed to the decline in behavioural standards of the generations of today even though I am not personally aware of any such individual contribution.

We do what we do, even though sometimes we know not what we do.

Monkey do as monkey see, the behaviour of the younger generations are only a reflection of the behaviour of the generations before them but with a few added flavors and enhancements to make them stand out from those that have gone before them.

Freedom means greater personal responsibility and individual accountability and for any personal action there has to be a clear positive or negative personal consequence!

IE: Reward or punishment ranging somewhere between public adulation and death!

In New Zealand it is always someone Else's fault, never our own! Cheers John.

[Two Smoker]

Raise the age for drivers licences. 17-18 would be good. I dont see any problem with the current licence system with bikes... How many people on 250's do you hear about getting killed, or being in a serious accident (those oh shit i fell over at 30kmh on gravel doesnt count)???

There is lots of good ideas such as restricting cc limits on cars and power restrictions. But it isnt practical, as avgas said "What about mummy and daddy's car???" Raising the age is the easiest one.

[Motu]

Just because of other young morons that think they are all hot, then make stupid decisions and crash doesn't mean that then I should not be allowed to drive... because of their mistakes.

The reason you have to wear a helmet at all times and are restricted to 250's as a learner is because of mistakes made by morons over 35 years ago.These people are just asking for more restrictions on morons.

It's fine when you want the make laws to limit the actions of others.....but a different story when the restrictions effect you personally.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

There is lots of good ideas such as restricting cc limits on cars and power restrictions. But it isnt practical, as avgas said "What about mummy and daddy's car???" Raising the age is the easiest one.

What about mummy and daddy's car... if they can't afford there own why should they drive mummys or daddys car... I had to buy my first bike... through blood sweat and tears... I was never allowed to ride dads... or drive the car... If they can't afford to buy one then then simply don't go on the road till they have a job and buy there own... if mummy and daddy want to buy a car form them... so be it... I have no problem with that either.

However...

Kids and youth today are getting everything handed to them on a platter... They don't earn it... as said above the licence system is a joke... practically given to them... Mommy and daddy buy a car and or bike... given to them. List goes on...

If they don't earn the right (for whatever) they not going to respect it are they. no?!?

Raising the age for both drinking, and been able to drive would help, but its not going to solve the issue of taking responsibility is it, and lets be honest here that is at the crusts of the matter!

[RT527]

Why bother disabling vehicles? Just tattoo a barcode on the back of everyone's neck, stick an RFID tag in their skull and, when the lawgivers decide that someone has done something they don't like, they can just broadcast a signal to a small pacemaker device in the miscreant's chest and disrupt their heartbeat.

Then it would work in many more situations: if the evildoer were escaping on foot, screwing your wife, reading an unapproved book, being black etc.

too much like big brother , i Dont mind some way of disabling a vehicle...besides if the little bugger is running from the cops hes up to no good, in my opinion if they did disable his bike and he lowsided ...so what, his actions put him there so theres no one to blame except himself.

If it was a traffic stop, then the person who doesnt run wouldnt have there motor disabled would they.

And as for the cut out Idea, was just a thought...I`m not a mechanic so what ever would work would be decided by the experts.

the security system would be the way to go.

Its been done on tv both here and overseas.

[Two Smoker]

What about mummy and daddy's car... if they can't afford there own why should they drive mummys or daddys car... I had to buy my first bike... through blood sweat and tears... I was never allowed to ride dads... or drive the car... If they can't afford to buy one then then simply don't go on the road till they have a job and buy there own... if mummy and daddy want to buy a car form them... so be it... I have no problem with that either.

However...

Kids and youth today are getting everything handed to them on a platter... They don't earn it... as said above the licence system is a joke... practically given to them... Mommy and daddy buy a car and or bike... given to them. List goes on...

If they don't earn the right (for whatever) they not going to respect it are they. no?!?

Raising the age for both drinking, and been able to drive would help, but its not going to solve the issue of taking responsibility is it, and lets be honest here that is at the crusts of the matter!

Good point, if they buy there own car (which i did with my first car and bike) they have more appreciation and respect for it. But surely using your parents car would only be the purpose of learning to drive under their supervision?

Taking responsibility??? That is a hard thing to teach. Compulsory defensive driving courses and tougher testing is required.

[Pixie]

a lack of appreciation of consequences, a "I'm ten foot tall, I can make a car do anything and I'm invulnerable" attitude.

A sharpened 6" steel spike mounted in front of the driver's head is a good reminder.
I'm serious

[James Deuce]

too much like big brother , i Dont mind some way of disabling a vehicle...besides if the little bugger is running from the cops hes up to no good, in my opinion if they did disable his bike and he lowsided ...so what, his actions put him there so theres no one to blame except himself.

.

You missed my point completely. Some old biddy's perception of what constitutes lawful behaviour does not give her the right to request the potential injury or death of another individual. That individual could be you commuting to work.