Licence gone :-(

[Ixion]

We have every right - are you trolling??

Or do you REALLY not know???

Well, not quite EVERY right. The police may stop a motorist to check licence etc without any other cause required. They may detain you for up to 15 minutes if necessary to establish identity, because you don't have your driver's licence on you. Apart from that they can only give you the once over and then you are legally entitled to be on your way. All assuming that they can't find anything you have done wrong of course. If you have been drinking (at all) then things are very different. And assuming that they did not stop you because of some emergency, such as an accident or nuclear explosion. In such cases you must follow the directions of the orificier. And assuming a few other bits and pieces.

On foot (or horse) they may stop you and require you to give name address and (I think) occupation. And may of course ask any questions that seem pertinant based on what you were doing (or not doing) at the time. None of which you need to answer , of course. Though it is usually simpler for everybody including yourself if you do.

There are also various other less specific rights to stop (lots) and detain (less), but these would normally require a certain inventiveness by the cop to use outside their intended role, and they run the risk of running into a bloody minded, civil rights aware bastard like Sir Robert Jones. Or Ixion.

In general, you are not obliged to accompany them , unless you are arrested (in which case they must caution you). Always seemed a damn silly threat that . I once told a cop that I would not answer any more questions (he was just being a cunt - wanting to know where I had been, where I was going etc). So he threatened to arrest me. I laughed at him, and pointed out that if he DID, he was obliged to caution me that I was not obliged to say anything. And I wouldn't. Then he could explain to a solicitor (and the Police Whitewash Authority), WHY he arrested me. He was quite cross, but had to admit defeat. I always cooperate with reasonable cops, (and with unreasonable ones when I have done something wrong). But I see no need to cooperate with unreasonable cunts when I have done nothing wrong.

[spudchucka]

'Random stop' Do you think we live in some sort of police state or something?

Without nature and cause then what right do the cops have to restrict the freedom of movement and detain someone.

LTA 1998, section 114.

[Lucy]

At the risk of agreeing with a policeman (grits teeth) in a 50k zone there is a high likelyhood of little kiddies and innocent bystanders moving at next to zero kph without protective clothing on - undeserved death on a stick for them if they get hit by a nutter at 120kph.

I concur. People argue that an industrial area has no kids etc etc and no-one about but that's not so. It's where other learners go to learn (cage and bike), and where security and cleaning staff and various other people who have jobs you dont even know exist have to spend time. Sure, laws are made to cover 'in general' situations, and everyone knows there are exceptions. And yet, everyone always has some sort of crap story and the truth is often the first casualty. I had some work colleagues who got quite shitty with my 'nana like' law abidingness and said things like "but at 3am in the morning who cares if I speed on the motorway" but in unguarded moments they would let slip that they actually got busted for going 90kph up the Bullock Track. (for those who don't know it, it's a narrow, steep road in Grey Lynn Auckland, next to Western Springs, houses, kids galore.)

[carver]

Carver

At the risk of agreeing with a policeman (grits teeth) in a 50k zone there is a high likelyhood of little kiddies and innocent bystanders moving at next to zero kph without protective clothing on - undeserved death on a stick for them if they get hit by a nutter at 120kph.

I would agree with SwanTiger (another grinding of teeth) that he was justified in 'avin' a go at you.

I have 20 years' road use in various countries and zero demerits ever, anywhere at any time...I'll happily cast the first stone (verbally) if you wish.

to quote clarkson (grits teeth), if kids are playing on a main-ish road at midnight, im the least of their worries!

[Patrick]

Scumpussy is right, however if there is cause to believe that the officers actions border on the side of harassment then you can submit a formal complaint to the PCA (Police Complaints Authority).

So, the civilian majority do have some protection.

However in saying that, it is extremely easy to have a particular officer removed from the force...

Oink. Oink.

Jeez Swanpussy... we aren't interested in the civillian majority. I only lock up wrongdoers, including drunk and disqualified drivers...

[McJim]

Jeez Swanpussy... we aren't interested in the civillian majority. I only lock up wrongdoers, including drunk and disqualified drivers...

But the way you fellas (Peelites) talk I'd got the impression that you considered the entire civillian majority to be wrongdoers!

P.S. Police are really civillians too - you are not a military operation.

[Patrick]

But the way you fellas (Peelites) talk I'd got the impression that you considered the entire civillian majority to be wrongdoers!

P.S. Police are really civillians too - you are not a military operation.

Shite no!!!! Only the ones who break the law... or look at me funny... or call me mean names Oh... no.... not those ones, I like them... I give em a bed for 5 to 6 hours at my place... with Bubba...

[McJim]

... I give em a bed for 5 to 6 hours at my place... with Bubba...

Hang on a mo...do you have a cellar? With a gimp? Do you ride a Chopper?
.........you're Z....Z's not dead honey!

Ewwwwwwww.

[SwanTiger]

including drunk and disqualified drivers...

So you were the one who locked up the Mokau cop huh? Tsk. Tsk.

[Patrick]

So you were the one who locked up the Mokau cop huh? Tsk. Tsk.

Nope. He was never locked up either...

[Patrick]

Hang on a mo...do you have a cellar? With a gimp? Do you ride a Chopper?
.........you're Z....Z's not dead honey!

Ewwwwwwww.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me...

[civil]

LTA 1998, section 114.

Land Transport Act 1998
114 Power to require driver to stop and give name and address, etc

(1)......

(2).....

(2A).....

(3)An enforcement officer may require the driver of a vehicle that is stopped under this Act to—

(a)Remain stopped for as long as is reasonably necessary for an enforcement officer to obtain the particulars referred to in paragraph (b), or to complete the exercise of any other power conferred on an enforcement officer by this Act; and

(b)On demand by an enforcement officer,—

(i)Give his or her name and address and date of birth, or such of those particulars as the enforcement officer may specify; and

(ii)State whether or not he or she is the owner of the vehicle; and

(iii)If the driver is not the owner of the vehicle, give the name and address of the owner or such particulars within the driver's knowledge as may lead to the identification of the owner.

(4).....

(5)An enforcement officer may require a driver to remain stopped on a road for as long as is reasonably necessary to enable the officer to establish the identity of the driver, but not for longer than 15 minutes if the requirement to remain stopped is made under this subsection only.

So according this section of the Act, you may stop to "complete the exercise of any other power conferred on an enforcement officer by this Act".

This section of the Act is not the right to arbitrary stop and detain (for more than 15mins to establish identity), but to stop to do something else.

Without the "something eles" (that gives the power conferred by the Act), then Mr Policeman Plod has no right to stop.

aka, probable cause. No probable cause = no right to stop.

Unless of cause they are looking to use their shiny badge pick up chicks or guys depending on their bent! Or maybe collecting names and addesses for their network marketing business.

[Ixion]

Land Transport Act 1998
114 Power to require driver to stop and give name and address, etc

(1)......

(2).....

(2A).....

(,,,
So according this section of the Act, you may stop to "complete the exercise of any other power conferred on an enforcement officer by this Act".

This section of the Act is not the right to arbitrary stop and detain (for more than 15mins to establish identity), but to stop to do something else.

Without the "something eles" (that gives the power conferred by the Act), then Mr Policeman Plod has no right to stop.

aka, probable cause. No probable cause = no right to stop.

,,,

You left out the rather important clauses 1 2 and 3

(1)An enforcement officer who is in uniform, or wearing a distinctive cap, hat, or helmet, with a badge of authority affixed to it, may signal or request the driver of a vehicle to stop the vehicle as soon as is practicable.
(2)An enforcement officer in a vehicle following another vehicle may, by displaying flashing blue, or blue and red, lights or sounding a siren, require the driver of the other vehicle to stop.
[(2A)Subject to subsections (4) and (5), the driver of a vehicle that is stopped by an enforcement officer under this Act must remain stopped for as long as is reasonably necessary for the enforcement officer to complete the exercise of any powers conferred, or duties imposed, on an enforcement officer by this Act.]

So a cop who is uniform etc, or wearing a hat, cap etc (NB Mr Scumdog - skullmasks do NOT qualify, no matter how distinctive) or flashing his flashy bits may indeed stop you without needing any reason.

Once he has stopped you though he has not unlimited power to detain you. He may (under other sections) require you to produce your licence, to undergo a breath test, he may check WoF, rego, various other stuff of like nature, and rather more for a HGV.

If you have not produced your licence he may require you to give your name and address etc (this actually continues a power that was in previous Acts certainly back as far as the Transport Act 1949) . But he may not detain you for more than 15 minutes just to check out your name and address info. But if he decides to breath test you, it won't work to delay matters then claim his 15 minutes is up. That is the bit about complete the exercise of any other powers etc.

So he may stop you just cos he's bored. And take as long as is "reasonable" checking out your vehicle, breath testing etc . And detain you for a further 15 minutes checking your ID.

Those are not unlimited powers. Nor, in general, unreasonable. They can no doubt be abused. But a cop who goes too far risks encountering someone like Sir Robert.

But "probable cause" is the invention of those who have watched too many American TV shows. It has never existed in British law. Since at least Tudor times a Constable has had the right to stop anybody and demand that they identify themselves. Even if the Transport Act 1998 did not exist a Constable (though not an "enforcement officer") would be able to stop you without needing to specify any cause, under the Common Law. The acts just spell things out, and allow for flashing lights etc.

In general if stopped it is simplest for everybody, oneself included, to simply produce licence (or other ID and grovel if you have genuinely left it at home); answer any questions simply and briefly; and go on your way.

[scumdog]

Wot Mr IXION sez.

Woulda sed it m'self but hey, I get tired of repeating myself only to be shot down by arm-chair lawyers who watch too much TV.

[spudchucka]

This section of the Act is not the right to arbitrary stop and detain (for more than 15mins to establish identity), but to stop to do something else.

Without the "something eles" (that gives the power conferred by the Act), then Mr Policeman Plod has no right to stop.

aka, probable cause. No probable cause = no right to stop.

Unless of cause they are looking to use their shiny badge pick up chicks or guys depending on their bent! Or maybe collecting names and addesses for their network marketing business.

Something else like section 113 and others too.

Read the Act and stop watching seppo cop shows on TV.