Double fatal crash, Rotorua (29 April)

[Ixion]

Gordon Armstrong's first conviction for drink driving was in 1986, the next in 1997. He was convicted again in 2000 and 2004.* In 2000, he was indefinitely disqualified from driving, meaning he could not renew his licence until he completed a mandatory disqualification period and drug and alcohol counselling.
* Although he finished the counselling, he did not renew his licence once the disqualification ended, and had driven without a licence since.

So, in 2000 , as a recidivist drunk driver he was "indefinately" disqualified (though indefinately does not seem to mean indefinately). Yet in 2004 , with that history, we was convicted again. And received what punishment?

[peasea]

I can't say I'm surprised to discover this guy was a repeat drunk driver but neither does it make me feel any better, more the opposite actually. There's a lot of anger out there too, quite justified I'd say, and some of it aimed at the family who didn't stop him from driving. They will be paying a price, for sure, but I can't help wondering if there are any others like him within that same family. Maybe they're all drunks, hence the apathy, I don't know.

Something else I don't know is how come the clown was still walking the streets? Surely 'three strikes/you're out' should have applied. We might still have our friends if it had. How do these judges sleep at night?

[festus]

Well first of this Mrs busa Pete so sorry for not making that clear.

But you are entitled to your option as am i which will not change. The power of family is very strong should they choose to use this power which this family obviously choose not to use re allowing there own children to be put in that car my god they could not respect there own kids so that must say a lot for them. Should i be proven wrong i would be first in line to apologize but dollars to donuts I'm not. If that makes me shallow so be it.

Like all here, I'm sure I wouldn't let my children be driven by a drunk driver. I'm sure this would have been the case too with this family (i'd hope). I'd put money on it the family knew nothing of the caregiver driving the kids around drunk. So where does the blame lie here? with the drunk driver !. Family are innocent victims here I reckon.........

[KATWYN]

I must have missed some news or summit?? where does it say the
family were with him and put the kids in the car etc??? That makes me cringe
a bit if they knew......

Also, we all know how cunning and sneaky alcoholics can be with their
secret boozing. It can be hard to tell sometimes.

[marty]

this story has been told again and again - recidivist diaqualified/drunk driver kills innocents.

unfortunately, calling for zero tolerance to this kind of driving ignores the obvious - the only way to carry out this level of policing is to, well, have more cops on the road. triple the number of booze bus check points. setting up stings at hotels waiting for drunks to drive. waiting outside recidivist drunks houses waiting for them to drive. you get the picture. there's no point 'having a chat' to these guys prior to them driving (haven't committed an offence yet) so they have to get as far as moving the car.

when the 3 times the current number of traffic cops are carrying out this zero tolerance regime, what do you think they'll be doing in their downtime?

pinging speeders for 111km/h.

be careful what you wish for.

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Like all here, I'm sure I wouldn't let my children be driven by a drunk driver. I'm sure this would have been the case too with this family (i'd hope). I'd put money on it the family knew nothing of the caregiver driving the kids around drunk. So where does the blame lie here? with the drunk driver !. Family are innocent victims here I reckon.........

So would you put money on the fact that the family didn't know about the previous drink driving convictions and the fact that he did not have a valid licence. Because if that is the case then i would have to agree with you.

[peasea]

the only way to carry out this level of policing is to, well, have more cops on the road. triple the number of booze bus check points. setting up stings at hotels waiting for drunks to drive. waiting outside recidivist drunks houses waiting for them to drive. you get the picture. there's no point 'having a chat' to these guys prior to them driving (haven't committed an offence yet) so they have to get as far as moving the car.

I wonder if anyone has crunched the dollar numbers and worked out the cost of building/operating more prisons per annum versus the cash cost of the damage these people cause? Then, when you add the social cost it's a no-brainer. However, I still scratch my head and wonder if locking drunks up is the answer and if it's not, what is? Right now I can't see any alternative.

[marty]

4 dui's over 20 years, and an indefinate disqual is not that uncommon - in fact, in the bigger picture, it's not even that serious - there are liiterally hundereds of these people driving around.

it is an embedded attitude in many communities - in fact, it's not that different to the attitude held by many in here in regard to speeding/wheelies/misbehaving on public roads etc - it's just that the attitude in circles such as this person obviously moved, turns a blind eye to disqualified, unlicenced, drink driving.

now i'm all for locking these losers up, but i've been there before, and identifying the potential killers is virtually impossible - without running a guantanamo-type operation, i just can't see how it would happen

[Paul in NZ]

now i'm all for locking these losers up, but i've been there before, and identifying the potential killers is virtually impossible - without running a guantanamo-type operation, i just can't see how it would happen

I go back to my proposal in an earlier thread. make much bigger sentences availiable to the judges and previous history becomes a multiplier. Cause an accident and you are proven DIC = penalty X, cause the same accident proven DIC with a history of similar acts and penalty = X2 right up to life...

Everyone deserves a second chance - but a third, 4th etc and then they fuck up and kill someone? Kill 3 people?? No way...

[candor]

At the risk of repeating myself - ignition alcolocks work very well elsewhere.
Cheaper than Police and prisons. Also there are anklets now that can be worn by DUI offenders that detect alcohol. Would you drink if it meant a night or 30 in prison?

[marty]

paul, they don't even send someone who kills in cold blood with a firearm to prison for life - they've got a long way to go before vehicle killings rate up there.

as a start, the vehicle owner should be responsible for the driver. Party to the offence.

i've just had an idea. driver's licence is like a swipe card - you have to swipe it to activate the pump. WOF/rego/RUC information is carried on this card as well.

[MyGSXF:Me]

Having just got in & read that latest newspaper article.. I am left feeling utterly chilled to the bone & speechless... :spudwhat:

My god.. those poor poor families...

[Matt_TG]

Having just got in & read that latest newspaper article.. I am left feeling utterly chilled to the bone & speechless... :spudwhat:

My god.. those poor poor families...

My feelings too

[Paul in NZ]

paul, they don't even send someone who kills in cold blood with a firearm to prison for life - they've got a long way to go before vehicle killings rate up there.

Well you know what I think about that...

I mean UP to life - ie open ended sentence so the punishment can suit the open ended stupidity of certain people...

Look - I don't like getting tickets or silly alcohol limits or all the other little irritants but I have some idea of what you folks see every day so i can accept it but really - some people..

[sunhuntin]

im with mrs busa pete... and i stand by what i said. what im feeling now, is what i would be feeling if these bikers were people i knew. to take a life, means you should lose your own. this fucktard has paid the ultimate price, and every single one of us in this thread is a little safer because of it. he would have got another fine, another rehab course and gone a bit longer with no license. then he would have been back behind the wheel, and someone else could have been killed by him.

i have no pity for his family... i dont know whether he was with them or alone, or what he was doing with those kids. but either way, someone should have stepped in and prevented this from happening. knock the prick senseless if need be... the lives of 3 kids and 3 bikers is worth a shit load more than the next bottle of booze.

if some member of my own family did this exact same thing, i would not want the pity of strangers. hes a murderer, plain and simple, and i would seek to distance myself from their name as best as possible.