Zero Tolerance

[gixermike]

I am quite surprised that it's so easy to get a work licence when you get banned for drink driving. Surely this should be changed to a total ban...for say 6 months / year or whatever.
It's just too easy at the moment. Get caught over the limit, get the wife / mate to give you a lift for a month and you're back in the game then...
Not being able to work / loosing income / your job would be a bigger deterrent than having to get a lift for 28 days....
won't stop everyone...but the people who think they'll get away with it, coz they aren't 'too pissed' and if they get caught they'll just get a lift....might give them more to think about...

[Squeak the Rat]

Looking at other example is a start? Tried to find some NZ stats but seems we don't go into this a great deal...funny that.

So is it a cop out to just rely on changing the culture. How many more people will be the victim of drunk drivers until the culture changes?

If bob drinks and drives today he knows he'll lose his licence for 6 months.

If you implement a zero tolerance - guess what? bob will drink drive tomorrow.

Lowering the tolerance won't change the drinking culture - it'll make us a country of anti-social alcoholics who stay at home getting pissed and beating up the wife.

[mstriumph]

The "no drinking at all so it's simple" argument would make sense if the problem was people a wee bit over the limit crashing . But it's not.

Firstly the present (adult) limit is high enough that anyone who reaches it is definately going to know they're affected. And the double and triple the limit figures that are returned by most alcohol impaired crash drivers, there is no way that they could possibly have thought that they were "still under the limit"

The reality is , that you can pass any law you like, and it won't stop an alcoholic drinking.

........................................
Which of course is why the people propounding a zero limit are almost always wowsers, because they see it as a convenient stepping stone to prohibition.

hey you watch who you are badmouthing!

i drink ............. and eat hamburgers [not simultaneously it's true ....]

i agree that you won't stop people doing those things and believe it would be gross infingement of people's rights for the state to try

so i certainly wouldn't support prohibition.

nevertheless - although people 'should' be aware they are impaired, the truth is that, the more they drink, the less effective their judgement is likely to be on ALL things ...... INCLUDING whether their level of impairment ......

..... under those circumstances it's an oversimplification to say that people were 'knowingly' drinking over the current limit to the level where they have had a traffic accident

if there was a 0% limit, you'd eliminate this problem at least
- and elimination of ANY part of the drink/drive scenario has got to be helpful?

- that and making it illegal to screen junkfood adverts during children's tv programmes .............

[Ixion]

a) Why
b) Fair enough I didn't read properly. But does not mean it will not stop those who do not go to AA.

Go get plastered to the point that you fail a breath test an hour or so after drinking. then answer your own question

No, it will not stop the one's who DON'T go to AA. Because they are still drinking. An alcoholic has a physical need to drink. He either stops because he decides to stop, period. Or he drinks. And no penalty, no law will stop him. He CAN'T stop.

And most (not all, but most) of the accidents where alcohol is a major part involve alcoholics. Why else would they keep coming back, for the 4th, 5th, 6th DUI charge? Their lives are ruined, they are sent to prision, they hate what they are and what they do, but still they do it. Your zero limit won't make a bit of difference to them. And this may be a good time to mention John 8:7 and 1 Corinthians 13

[mstriumph]

................. I'm sure sweden also have much tougher driving tests - do we implement this also, .......................

YES PLEASE !!!!!

[davereid]

If John blew 87 its a fail... but at 13 the other fellas OK

[Grahameeboy]

If bob drinks and drives today he knows he'll lose his licence for 6 months.

If you implement a zero tolerance - guess what? bob will drink drive tomorrow.

Lowering the tolerance won't change the drinking culture - it'll make us a country of anti-social alcoholics who stay at home getting pissed and beating up the wife.

So the anti-social will be the same then!!

[James Deuce]

Sweden is a country where parents have no rights over their children, and taxation consumes 75% of your income directly or indirectly.

Using their zero tolerance policy out of context will just make criminals out of people who use mouthwash.

[ceebie13]

What if.... you have a drink or two...consider yourself to be "safe" and ride/drive home. On the way home a boy racer who is totally sober but driving dangerously causes a minor accident with you (ie: no injuries). However, a witness calls the cops, you are both breathalysed but you are the one ever so slightly over the limit...enough to lose your licence. He gets a fine and a few DPs. You lose your wheels for a few months. Was it worth it?

I'm as guilty as probably most of us for having a beer while out for a scratch...I do it on KB runs as mentioned by someone earlier...but I think I'd endorse the ZT argument because I feel I can enjoy myself just as much without that one or two beers. It matters not to me if I can't have an alcoholic drink at all if I want to drive.

Sorry to mention the "S" word but someone said that Swedish Police can pull you up for no apparent reason and breathalyse you...well, doesn't that happen here and in the UK too?

Interesting to see the voting...seems like a game of catch up is developing.
The result will be fascinating.

[Grub]

Jeez ... I've just seen the poll results where 25 people say it's ok to drink/drive and only 22 say it isn't!

FFS! What is wrong with everyone? Look at the Rotorua crash thread and see the gnashing of teeth and RIP's over a drunk killing 3 bikers and you STILL support drinking & driving?

Jeez, we have a serious problem ... and those 25 who did not vote for zero tolerance *are* the problem. We have to realise, it's *not* the other guy/guyess .... it's *us*

[SlashWylde]

Having a zero tolerance won't stop the people who just don't care. They don't care under the current system and they wouldn't care under a zero tolerance system either.

Aggreed. Preventative detention would probably be a better solution for recidivist drink drivers/unlicenced drivers.

[James Deuce]

Getting strident and shouty about it doesn't change it. Zero Tolerance is just another engine of compulsion in a country losing its economic and social focus to the weight of many other engines of compulsion.

Getting pissed and falling down is a right of passage re-enacted with disturbing frequency.

Want it to stop happening? Make alcohol a dietary supplement used in small quantities and appreciated for its qualities, rather than a means to a vomitous end.

Stop drinking to excess in front of your kids and bragging about it.

[Nasty]

I think this is called blind drinking ... "its only a bit and I am fine" ... "my reaction times have not changed" ... "I would do things the same if drinking or sober" ... all these statements are utter crap.

I am really concerned ... we lose too many riders to consider this "non issue" ... it is easy if you want to drink don't ride or drive .. catch a taxi, bus or train, and consider yourself to have had a good time ... and consider others lucky as you didn't put yourself or them in danger.

As soon as one drink goes through the lips often there is a change .... either to the attitude or to the abilities ... no matter who you are - or how much you can hold your liquor. Have you ever noticed those who are holding their liquor are slurring.

Oh well ... I will continue to not drink and drive and not drink and ride .. and hope others learn without having a death to teach them that it is just stupid.

I said in here don't ride or drive .. cos it doesn't matter which you do .. when drinking you are definately affected. [/rant off]

[Squeak the Rat]

Jeez, we have a serious problem ... and those 25 who did not vote for zero tolerance *are* the problem. We have to realise, it's *not* the other guy/guyess .... it's *us*

I think you'll find a fair proportion of the people voting against zero tolerance are very anti drunk drivers. I just don't believe that a zero tolerance approach will have a positive net gain for NZ, and that the effort is better focused on fixing the root causes, ie the drinking culture (see above).

[ceebie13]

Jeez ... I've just seen the poll results where 25 people say it's ok to drink/drive ....

I think you'll get a few retorts from that statement, Grub. As STR says,
you can't generalise that those against zero tolerance are condoning drink driving.