Zero Tolerance

[Ixion]

You are ill informed. 2 pints would put you close to or over the limit.

Humbug. Two pints, sculled, might put you over the limit if measured immediately. Two pints over the course of an hour will register on the meter but be well within the adult limit (not so sure about the youth limit).

Two pints over two hours won't even register for most people.

Verified personally with the assistance of various booze buses over the years. And I've never been done for over the limit.

(I'm assuming two pints of Speights. or weasel piss if you don't drink real beer. Two pints of spirits is obviously another matter.)

And a glass of beer , a glass of wine, and a glass of spirits , all have about the same effect as far as alcohol goes. the reason, obviously , being that the "glass" has a different amount of alcohol in each case. If someone drank in one go a schooner of neat spirits, obviously they'd be over the limit. But no sensible person would. That's not moderate drinking.

And I do know people who can drink a bottle of spirits every few hours all night long.

Read the newspaper accounts of people convicted of DUI. Sometimes they quote what the person drank. You'll find bottles of spirits, dozens of beer. Not a glass of wine.

[ceebie13]

...I'm assuming two pints of Speights, or weasel piss if you don't drink real beer.

Indeed, cos we all know that drinking Speights is like making love in a punt... fuckin' close to water!!

[Mr. Peanut]

no, you don't
no, it doesn't
hope not
but interesting post ..... thinking you drive [sing, dance, fight, argue, etc etc 'better after a drink' unquote is a common enough dillusion to be parodied in stand up comedy AND YET NO-ONE ACTS ACCORDINGLY

...and what about the gain in your reaction time?

By relaxing and riding smoother, I'm allowing the bike to work better. Thus increasing my traction.

The small loss in reaction time is offset by this, and small enough to cause little difference. Besides, I like to think I leave myself enough space to keep out of harms way.

I'm not talking about being intoxicated, just calming the nerves and allowing the mind to focus on the ride.

[bell]

The main reason for NZs death toll is driver attitude. Driving is a right, not a privilege, other people sharing the road are annoying irritants, and any situation requiring actual driver skill will probably result in a fatality. Then there is the main reason that people die. Ego combined with Arrogance.

Got it in 1 Jim.

IMHO attitude is one of the most important ingredients in the mix as to what makes a driver/rider worthy of getting their licence (or getting it back, as the case may be).

I posted this some time ago in another thread. It raises some valid points.

From twowheels magazine July 06. "John McRoberts is the Assistant Commissioner, Traffic & Operations for the Western Australia Police. He also rides a Hayabusa. He's not one of them, he's one of us. So pay attention."

Attitude: the silent killer

"It was 2am when the patrol car parked in the driveway of a suburban family home. Inside the occupants were fast asleep, totally unaware of the shock they would soon experience. As they crossed the well manicured lawn, the police officers knew there would be tears and disbelief as they explained what had happened and asked who would formally identify the body now temporarily entombed in the city mortuary.

That scenario occurs almost daily somewhere in Australia and all too often involves a motorcycle. Based on the myriad material in magazines, newspapers and, more recently, the internet, one could be fooled into believing some within the motorcycling fraternity view police as the enemy. Let me assure you nothing could be further from the truth. After some 27 years in my profession, I've seen more death and destruction than I care to remember and our efforts focus purely on reducing road trauma and the consequences.

Police are not the sole custodians of the road safety agenda. Each and every one of us has a part to play if we are to achieve a 40 percent reduction in the number of fatalities per 100,000 population by 2010 (The National Road Safety Strategy 2001-2010, Australian Transport Council, Canberra). There is no doubt that is a hard task, but an achievable one if we all commit to it. On the bright side, we've come a long way when you consider the rate is now 8 per 100,000 compared to 30 per 100,000 in 1997.

For some time now, much emphasis has been placed on fatigue, speed, drink driving and seatbelt use as the causal factors of most serious injury and fatal road crashes. There is good reason for that because we know, more often than not, one or more of those factors led to the death or serious injury of someone's friend, relative or loved one. But I believe attitude is the silent killer in many crashes and I have the evidence to prove it.

In Western Australia last year 83 motorcyclists were killed or seriously injured compared with 66 in 2004, representing a 25.8 percent increase. That is an alarming statistic: 22 motorcyclists (including 2 pillion passengers) are no longer with us and the cost to the community is great. Regrettably, I suspect this trend will continue unless some motorcyclists change their attitude.

No doubt riders and motorcycle lobby groups will be quick to point the finger at car drivers. Excuse the pun, but that's a cop out and here's why...Of 20 fatal crashes in WA last year, nine involved single motorcycles with speed identified as the primary cause. Of the remainder, seven were attributed to the car driver. There is no doubt riding fast is a buzz, but it needs to be balanced with road and environmental factors, vehicle condition and, most importantly, the skill and attitude of the rider. For the most part we ride mechanically sound bikes on good roads in ideal weather conditions, which suggests the rider is to blame in many crashes. Simply put - attitude played a part and some riders died as a result.

Still in doubt? Just over 12 months ago a man went to his brothers funeral followed by the traditional wake and, no doubt, a few drinks to say farewell. Later the same night he convinced a companion to join him for a 'quick blast'. With the passenger wearing only a bicycle helmet, both left the family gathering and were never seen again. The bike left the roadway at high speed, hit a tree stump and the rest is history. Two lives lost and one can only imagine the grief for those left behind. Sure, speed and alcohol played their part, but what does it say about attitude?

Worse still is the case of a rider stopped by police doing 101km/h in a 60 km/h zone. The exchange with police over, the 20-year-old took off. Tragically, four minutes and a few kilometres later, he ignored a red traffic light, collided with a 4WD and was killed instantly. The harsh but stark reality is that this man's death need not have occurred but for attitude. Crash investigators concluded that speed and rider error were to blame and that's exactly why police enforce speed limits - to reduce road trauma by changing driver behaviour and attitude.

Speed detection devices are not the most popular road safety equipment west of the Nullarbor and I suspect a similar attitude prevails on the other side of the continent. However, they are a necessary tool in our quest to lower the road toll. Why? Because speed, or should I say attitude, kills.

Fortunately, not all riders who speed will crash. No doubt many have the skill to gracefully manoeuvre their machines down the highway without incident providing all goes well. But what happens when things go wrong? We recently detected a motorcycle travelling at 243 km/h on a metropolitan arterial road (90 km/h zone). Luckily, no one was hurt, but the stopping distance at that speed is more than 300 metres. There is no doubt that a collision at or near that velocity would almost certainly result in death for the rider, but there are potentially fatal consequences for other road users and to ignore that fact demonstrates a serious lack of judgement and a poor attitude.

Riding brings enormous pleasure to thousands of Australians every week, including me. In my humble opinion it's hard to find a better way to forget the office woes, take in the wonderful sights Australia has to offer and enjoy the 'esprit de corps' with fellow bikers. That is a right we all have and one we should enjoy whenever possible, providing of course we do so responsibly. For those who do, there is much fun to be had. For those who don't, there is a possibility it will be your driveway the patrol car is parked in as a police officer prepares to deliver the worst news possible.

So, my friends, next time you saddle up and twist the wrist, take a moment to think of Winston Churchill who said, "Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference". It might just keep you alive!"

[spudchucka]

well, Scummie, it was true!! Probably about ten years old...but true nontheless... there was quite a furore about it in the press at the time.

The passive sniffer test can give a fail on substances other than alcohol. The roadside breath screening test and the evidential test won't. So, nobody has been charged with drink driving when they only had vinegar on their breath, its simply not possible. They could however be required to undergo a breath screen test after giving a failed passive test but it wouldn't go any further than that.

[SPman]

if you get stopped actually while taking the cough syrup it takes what 1 minute to stop you, 5 minutes to get out the car,

Mate, if it takes you 5mins to get out of the car, I would assume you're already gonna fail.........


Doesn't Sweden, (along with the other Scandinavian countries), have one of the highest alcoholism rates in the world......

[James Deuce]

Doesn't Sweden, (along with the other Scandinavian countries), have one of the highest alcoholism rates in the world......

It's dark all the time, then light all the time, and all the pretty girls get married to people who live in countries with a proper light/dark cycle.

I'd drink too.

[Maha]

Quite frankly I'm tired of the lowest common denominator setting the standard by which all others are judged. It is starting to impact quite seriously on general human development.

2nd post in this thread and thats all i need to read, agree 100% with ya Jim....

[Edbear]

Drunks will do what they want without worrying how it affects other people

Absolutely correct! How many times is it reported that it was the "umpteenth time" the drunk driver was stopped/ fined/ disqualified, etc.?

[KoroJ]

We already live in one of the most over-regulated countries and zero tolerance won't stop the problem.

Bit like smacking kids, (sorry...child abuse), it needs education not legislation.

Personally, I have set myself a one drink limit when riding but I don't have a problem having a few drinks when driving and judging by most of the rides I've been on, I think most bike riders are the same and treat alcohol with more respect than normal.

[rwh]

See where Sweden are on the attached graph.....seems to make a case.

Does it? Perhaps it would mean something if the y axis was actually labelled with something ...

Richard

[mstriumph]

Got it in 1 Jim.

...............................
Speed detection devices are not the most popular road safety equipment west of the Nullarbor and I suspect a similar attitude prevails on the other side of the continent. However, they are a necessary tool in our quest to lower the road toll. Why? Because speed, or should I say attitude, kills.

Fortunately, not all riders who speed will crash. No doubt many have the skill to gracefully manoeuvre their machines down the highway without incident providing all goes well. But what happens when things go wrong? We recently detected a motorcycle travelling at 243 km/h on a metropolitan arterial road (90 km/h zone). Luckily, no one was hurt, but the stopping distance at that speed is more than 300 metres. There is no doubt that a collision at or near that velocity would almost certainly result in death for the rider, but there are potentially fatal consequences for other road users and to ignore that fact demonstrates a serious lack of judgement and a poor attitude.

...............

talking about speed

whoops ---- freudian slip - i meant 'attitude'

no, it's really a piece about attitude - honest!

--- but let's just slip a justification for speed cameras in here.........

i live in west australia and no, bell, he is NOT one of us
- HE'S just a piss-poor excuse for a lame-brained, grovelling public servant [ha - THAT's a laff!] THAT JUST HAPPENS TO OWN A MOTORCYCLE and, no matter how he tries to dress it up is mindlessly and slavishly following the party line that it MUST be speed that's mostly responsible, right? ..

.. because by pinning the blame on 'speed'

1. it saves us having to THINK about the thousand and one OTHER contributory causes there may have been and which, heaven forfend, we may actually have to DO something about if we acknowledge and

2. it enables us, with a smug, self-satisfied smile on our parlimentary-gourmet-public-funded-diningroom-stuffed fat faces, to gleefully justify continuing with that least discriminating and most cost-effective method of revenue-raising THE SPEED CAMERA

allow a jumped-up, weak-kneed little wannabe like that to claim any form of kinship with ME????? - i'd rather perform an obscene sexual act on a diseased warthog to the strains of 'rule britannia' sung by the paramilitary wing of the luton girls' choir

BASTARD!!!

[avgas]

Cant educate people not to drink, only shunning works.
Look at smoking in NZ.

[Toaster]

Having a zero tolerance won't stop the people who just don't care. They don't care under the current system and they wouldn't care under a zero tolerance system either.

Too true. I remember the scores of recidivist drink drivers, usually disqualified that always came up again and again. Selfish would be one way to describe their ambivilent attitudes.

[Toaster]

Absolutely correct! How many times is it reported that it was the "umpteenth time" the drunk driver was stopped/ fined/ disqualified, etc.?

Absolutely true. And they would argue the toss, be difficult during the process and fight it in court. Gutless scum. I remember not long before I left the job catching the same idiot in the space of a few hours.