Do I really need my rear brake?

[James Deuce]

then you should know that 95-100% of breaking is done with the front on the track this brakeing can be used to adust speed into a corner but the front brake is not only designed to regulate speed but to also stop you. so if you do it on the race trach at much higher speeds what says you cant do the same thing on the road or its unsafe to do this on the road? again it is still a flat object. but back to the main question you can do it and i would say it would be safe but if you get pulled up you will probably get fined so i would get it fixed as soon as possible

Go back and read my post and then have a think about how pointless that post was.

Thank heavens for people like Mr Xerxesdaphat. Otherwise I might have to detonate all those bombs I made with the recipes I downloaded from the Internet.

[sAsLEX]

Go back and read my post and then have a think about how pointless that post was.

Thank heavens for people like Mr Xerxesdaphat. Otherwise I might have to detonate all those bombs I made with the recipes I downloaded from the Internet.

I think you will find its terrorists like myself and K14 and Shaun from New Plymouth that make the bombs..........

[NordieBoy]

then you should know that 95-100% of breaking is done with the front on the track

I think you'll find that 95-100% of breaking is done with a high-side on the track.

Braking however...

[90s]

You do not need the rear brake ... until you need it.

So the question is, do you feel lucky punk?

Well, do ya?

[moko]

I was always taught to use the rear brake in tandem with the front when braking. Basically the rear steadies the bike. Stops it from trying to overtake the front if you apply it too hard.

75% front and 25% back is how I've ridden. I wouldn't suggest removing the back at all.

The important word here being "taught" mate,some of the stuff posted here is plain scary,being bloody clueless isn't a crime but on a bike it's dangerous.The way you were taught is the way the Bike Manufacturers design their bikes to be used.In Britain no 2 wheeled vehicle user get on the road without basic training and satisying the tester that they have a good grasp of the basics of bike control,part of that training being braking using both brakes.
Tom worries me,he's had this stuff explained to him in detail in 2 threads now and he's still not listening,I had a mate like him who didn't listen,ironically about the back brake on his Suzi GT250 which he was riding with no rear brake cable.Car turned right in front of him,maybe he could have stopped with both brakes,maybe he couldn't but it would have at least given him a better chance,as it was he couldn't stop and was killed outright.I wouldn't wish that on anyone but for God's sake you young guys,us old hands have often learned the hard way,made all the mistakes,felt the pain and too often lost mates as well so forget being smartarses,bloody listen and you might just save yourself from yourself.A big part of riding safely,quickly and safely even,is experience and kiwibiker seems to be full of guys wet behind the ears arguing with those of us who have seen it,done it and lived it....and usually it's total bollocks that would be funny if wasn't distinctly worrying.

[shcabbeh]

The important word here being "taught" mate,some of the stuff posted here is plain scary,being bloody clueless isn't a crime but on a bike it's dangerous.The way you were taught is the way the Bike Manufacturers design their bikes to be used.In Britain no 2 wheeled vehicle user get on the road without basic training and satisying the tester that they have a good grasp of the basics of bike control,part of that training being braking using both brakes.
Tom worries me,he's had this stuff explained to him in detail in 2 threads now and he's still not listening,I had a mate like him who didn't listen,ironically about the back brake on his Suzi GT250 which he was riding with no rear brake cable.Car turned right in front of him,maybe he could have stopped with both brakes,maybe he couldn't but it would have at least given him a better chance,as it was he couldn't stop and was killed outright.I wouldn't wish that on anyone but for God's sake you young guys,us old hands have often learned the hard way,made all the mistakes,felt the pain and too often lost mates as well so forget being smartarses,bloody listen and you might just save yourself from yourself.A big part of riding safely,quickly and safely even,is experience and kiwibiker seems to be full of guys wet behind the ears arguing with those of us who have seen it,done it and lived it....and usually it's total bollocks that would be funny if wasn't distinctly worrying.

I would not call myself an experienced rider, I've only been riding for a year. In saying that though, I know my basics fairly well. To be honest when I read this title I thought it was a joke, or alluding to something else.

I'd prefer to trust the knowledge of the experienced so that I might live long enough to have my own! Thanks for the response.

[FROSTY:Me]

plain N simple--Fix the brake--

[kneescraper]

Hey there, quick question.

My rear brake caliper was feeling alittle strange when used, kind felt like the pistons werent pushing the pads with all their might. So I cleaned it with CRC 5.56 penertating fluid and bleed the lines with new DOT 4 fluid as directed on the brake system. Since this, the brake pads are binding on the disc and Ive checked for air in the lines etc. The foot pedal has next to no play at all....could my piston seals have been buggered by the CRC?

Sorry for the hijacking of this thread, peace out!

[tri boy]

Hi sraper,
Try to find some freeplay at the pedal first.(this will guarantee master cylinder stroke is seated).
If this doesn't solve the fault, think about getting them serviced by a bike shop.
You need 100% trust in them. Spend a bit to save alot.

[NordieBoy]

The foot pedal has next to no play at all....could my piston seals have been buggered by the CRC?

Unlikely.
Are you able to move the calipers/pistons by hand?

[kneescraper]

I can push the pistons in with the help of a screw driver to use as a lever. Sorry Tri Boy, I'm not sure what you mean, would you beable to discribe what you mean more indepth?

Cheers.

[The Stranger:Me]

The important word here being "taught" mate,some of the stuff posted here is plain scary,being bloody clueless isn't a crime but on a bike it's dangerous.The way you were taught is the way the Bike Manufacturers design their bikes to be used.In Britain no 2 wheeled vehicle user get on the road without basic training and satisying the tester that they have a good grasp of the basics of bike control,part of that training being braking using both brakes.
Tom worries me,he's had this stuff explained to him in detail in 2 threads now and he's still not listening,I had a mate like him who didn't listen,ironically about the back brake on his Suzi GT250 which he was riding with no rear brake cable.Car turned right in front of him,maybe he could have stopped with both brakes,maybe he couldn't but it would have at least given him a better chance,as it was he couldn't stop and was killed outright.I wouldn't wish that on anyone but for God's sake you young guys,us old hands have often learned the hard way,made all the mistakes,felt the pain and too often lost mates as well so forget being smartarses,bloody listen and you might just save yourself from yourself.A big part of riding safely,quickly and safely even,is experience and kiwibiker seems to be full of guys wet behind the ears arguing with those of us who have seen it,done it and lived it....and usually it's total bollocks that would be funny if wasn't distinctly worrying.

Certainly different bikes will be different. a modern sport bike will I believe get 100% brake force on the front. This will vary to say 70% on a cruiser.

I never use the rear brake when riding on my own (GSXR 1000).

When braking hard out (on the front only) I get chain chatter from the rear of the bike as the rear wheel skips.
At this stage, will I get any use from the rear brake?

After watching 100s of emergency braking sessions there is one issue which is very common. If both brakes are applied at the same time, or the rear first, when the weight transfers to the front the rear unloads and starts skidding. Common wisdom holds that a skidding wheel has less traction than a rolling wheel, we see this with a burn out also. So at this point is the rear brake contributing to the stopping power of the bike?

When the rear does lock, you loose a gyroscope. If you then lock the front you have 0 gyroscopes, it's all over rover. I haven't yet seen front wheel lock up (in one of these sessions) cause a bin. They just release and reapply the brake.

There is a study around which attempted to sort this issue once and for all.
They concluded that rear applied first then front and all the while with the clutch in provided the best stopping.
However, some interesting points to note about the study.
1) they used experienced riders (no definition was given however of experienced)
2) of the 600 tests 400 were rejected as non compliant. If experienced riders can't get it right two thirds of the time, how is a noob going to get on. In an emergency brake situation even an experienced rider can't actually go back and ask for the chance again.
3) the bikes were fitted with outriggers, so binning was impossible. Not exaclty real world.
4) the bikes were fitted with a full size mac computer, protective case and data logging equipment rear of the rear axle. The weight of this was not given, though even 20kg rear of the rear axle would bias the rear brake.

2 schools of thought on the clutch.
A modern IL4 sport bike can over brake the engine, so clutch in means you are not trying to brake the engine as well as the bike and this can contribute to a shorter stopping distance.
With the clutch out the bike is more stable, pull in the clutch when rolling down a hill and see which you feel is the more stable. Also if you are using the rear brake, clutch out helps stop the rear wheel from locking.

In short, my belief is.
A modern sport bike or naked bike, you get somewhere between FA and no braking from the rear when the front is working properly, with a bias toward the latter.
An older bike and/or cruiser, you are going to get at least some braking from the rear and possibly even a very large amount of stopping power will come from the rear.

[beyond]

Certainly different bikes will be different. a modern sport bike will I believe get 100% brake force on the front. This will vary to say 70% on a cruiser.

I never use the rear brake when riding on my own (GSXR 1000).

When braking hard out (on the front only) I get chain chatter from the rear of the bike as the rear wheel skips.
At this stage, will I get any use from the rear brake?

After watching 100s of emergency braking sessions there is one issue which is very common. If both brakes are applied at the same time, or the rear first, when the weight transfers to the front the rear unloads and starts skidding. Common wisdom holds that a skidding wheel has less traction than a rolling wheel, we see this with a burn out also. So at this point is the rear brake contributing to the stopping power of the bike?

When the rear does lock, you loose a gyroscope. If you then lock the front you have 0 gyroscopes, it's all over rover. I haven't yet seen front wheel lock up (in one of these sessions) cause a bin. They just release and reapply the brake.

There is a study around which attempted to sort this issue once and for all.
They concluded that rear applied first then front and all the while with the clutch in provided the best stopping.
However, some interesting points to note about the study.
1) they used experienced riders (no definition was given however of experienced)
2) of the 600 tests 400 were rejected as non compliant. If experienced riders can't get it right two thirds of the time, how is a noob going to get on. In an emergency brake situation even an experienced rider can't actually go back and ask for the chance again.
3) the bikes were fitted with outriggers, so binning was impossible. Not exaclty real world.
4) the bikes were fitted with a full size mac computer, protective case and data logging equipment rear of the rear axle. The weight of this was not given, though even 20kg rear of the rear axle would bias the rear brake.

2 schools of thought on the clutch.
A modern IL4 sport bike can over brake the engine, so clutch in means you are not trying to brake the engine as well as the bike and this can contribute to a shorter stopping distance.
With the clutch out the bike is more stable, pull in the clutch when rolling down a hill and see which you feel is the more stable. Also if you are using the rear brake, clutch out helps stop the rear wheel from locking.

In short, my belief is.
A modern sport bike or naked bike, you get somewhere between FA and no braking from the rear when the front is working properly, with a bias toward the latter.
An older bike and/or cruiser, you are going to get at least some braking from the rear and possibly even a very large amount of stopping power will come from the rear.

Yep, spot on. I agree.
My GSX1400 under heavy braking transfer just about all the braking force to the front.
When I first got it I would use the rear brake. Problem was that to try and synchronize the rear so it wouldn't lock and slide, you were concentrating on getting that recipe exactly right that your braking distances increased. With experience this got better of course but now I never use the rear brak except in three circumstances.
1. Hill starts two up.
2. When on an incline and at the lights or stopped so the front brake pads don't over heat and warp the front disk. This happens easily especially after a hard run and is the main reason for warped disks on modern bikes.
3. Very rarely to drop her in a little more when going into a corner a tad hot.

Other than that, front brake always, right foot perched on the peg on the balls of my feet for more ground clearance and no problems.

I can stop a hell of a lot quicker using just the front brake without worrying about the rear doing it's little dance all over the show. After 40,000kms on the GSX1400's I still use the same recipe. using the rear brake under heavy braking, even lightly, just locks up the rear so it's pretty useless under quicker riding conditions.

[beyond]

Whoops double up

[doc]

Okay okay, this sounds like a Renegade Master question, but really, do I?
I mean, I hardly ever use it anyway.
I'd like to go off to the KB gathering in Turangi tomorrow but my rear brake is stuck on slightly due to an old piston seal not retracting properly.
The pads rub against the disc, and it gets too hot to touch. So I'd just detach it and drain the fluid till I can get it fixed next week.
This is a really bad idea, eh?

Thanks to Renegade Master for paving the way for this question.

Don't listen to all the negative advice, you go ahead and do what you like. If you really want to get to "The Gathering" I'm sure that your right as an individual is more important, especially if using a back brake is dangerous as some think. You shouldn't even have to wear a helmet it's a long way and your neck could get sore. I personally would prefer that you get one of those HiVis vests so that I can avoid you.