Fair call for a barrier but cheese grater?

[Grahameeboy]

We honour Dan by our efforts to ensure that this kind of senseless death is not repeated.

Fair point, however, lets get the facts first. Any death on a motorbike is senseless anyway, we just need to establish whether the barrier was the key factor or whether Dan would have died anyway.

Then we can honour as you suggest.

[jafar]

I am sure that Transit NZ, whether right or wrong, has not deliberately choosen a dangerous barrier method. Sill to suggest that.

I doubt they have chosen the cheese cutter barriers based on anything more than cost. This type of barrier is effective on holding cars but I would guess useless against a fully loaded truck & lethal against a motorcycle.
As cars make up the majority of road traffic then that is what they are designed for.

[Reckless]

well last time I went to Kiimmy's with the MX bikes. I noticed they have the bloody things each side of the Lane and very very close! Dangerously so in my opinion. Yes thats one on the center line aswell.
They give me the shits even in the 4x4. I don't know whether this is because I'm shit scared of them on the bike or not. But I think they are very very dangerous and threatening.
Maybe that what makes that piece of road so called safer, because even the dumb shit cage drivers are scared of them. God forbid I'm ever in the situation I get caught in someone elses mistake when those are around. If you hit them your dead or very very mangled up. Quite frankly if they can't put concrete down the centre they shouldn't put anything in my humble opinion.

[MSTRS:Me]

...I am sure that Transit NZ, whether right or wrong, has not deliberately chosen a dangerous barrier method....

They did chose. In the face of (safer?) alternatives. How could any decision NOT be deliberate?
Are you saying 'they' put all the possibilities in a hat and a blindfolded bureaucrat was randomly selected to pull out the one 'they' used??

[Swoop]

This type of barrier is effective on holding cars but I would guess useless against a fully loaded truck & lethal against a motorcycle.
As cars make up the majority of road traffic then that is what they are designed for.

I am wondering how well the cheese-cutters perform when a high vehicle (4x4, land rover, land cruiser, etc) has to use them. This type of vehicle is now widely used in our country.
Surely the cheese-cutter is intended for cars?

[swbarnett]

lets get the facts first. Any death on a motorbike is senseless anyway, we just need to establish whether the barrier was the key factor or whether Dan would have died anyway.

From the eyewitness account Dan was cut in half. I can think of no factor that has even a remote possibility of doing this other than the wire barrier. We're jumping on a 99% certainty. Yes, we'll look pretty silly in the extremely unlikely event that it turns out the barrier was not the cause of death. However, for the sake of striking while the iron's hot I for one am willing to take the minute risk that we may be wrong.

[Reckless]

Unfortunatly with the mentality about at transit, it will take death, several, to put this right. And no ones ever accountable.
Some semi truck will have to hit it, take out some cars and be alive enough to say "I could have saved it if the damn wires hadn't been caught around my steering"
or
It can be proved these cheese grators are costing more in unjury than prevention.
Doesn't their road fix priority have a Dollars cost Vs Death/injury cost benefit calculation.
Its not about common sense its about dollars!!

[MSTRS:Me]

I am wondering how well the cheese-cutters perform when a high vehicle (4x4, land rover, land cruiser, etc) has to use them. This type of vehicle is now widely used in our country.
Surely the cheese-cutter is intended for cars?

Their intention is to deflect any vehicle that hits them at a relatively shallow angle. And to contain any vehicle that does so at angles closer to 90 degrees. This they do. I doubt that the higher CoG in a 4x4 would make any difference. Even motorcycles themselves are deflected/contained.
I guess 'we' are not important in the equation.

[rwh]

The argument that 'life is fragile' etc is not valid. The objection we have is not to barriers, but to the wilful installation of a barrier type that is known to be lethal , when there are other barrier options which are safer. It is exactly the same logic that requires cars to have safety glass in their windscreens. Car manufacturers are forbidden to use ordinary glass, because there is a safer alternative available. There are many other similar requirements. Why should not Transit be required to follow the same safety logic that they implose on others?

While I agree with you in this case, one has to be careful with this kind of argument. Would it not be equally valid to argue that we can and should forbid the use of motorcycles, because there is a safer alternative available (the car).

Richard

[Toaster]

Cheesegrater is cheap and easy to install. LTNZ cares not a shit for motorcyclists. HTFU.

Sad but very true.

An unacceptable number of lives would have to be lost BEFORE they do anything to fix this. The economic costs of the deaths are viewed from a macroeconomic point if view. Sadly that does nothing for the individuals sufferring loss, but we are all merely a very small part of a much much bigger picture.

[MSTRS:Me]

Sad but very true.

An unacceptable number of lives would have to be lost BEFORE they do anything to fix this. The economic costs of the deaths are viewed from a macroeconomic point if view. Sadly that does nothing for the individuals sufferring loss, but we are all merely a very small part of a much much bigger picture.

And if deliberate and wanton destruction of these things makes them no longer 'economic' ???

[Ixion]

They may be cheap and economic for Transit. But not so for ACC. So therein maybe is an ally.

[Toaster]

And if deliberate and wanton destruction of these things makes them no longer 'economic' ???

You want to borrow my wire cutters?!

[MSTRS:Me]

You want to borrow my wire cutters?!

Have you 'tested' them...

[Neon]

I look at it this way:

Current legislation around Health and Safety issues is that 'all practicable steps' must be taken to elimate, isolate or minimise harm. Why should the rules for Transit be any different? Transit have no choice but to respond to the evidence that has already been gathered by KBers. I'm sure your local MP would be willing to listen...

If I had to choose between meeting a smooth barrier or wires at speed, I know which one I would prefer.