crashe shows us how to do it!

[Mom]

No helmet, no gloves, standing on the pegs........ Yes believe it or not this from a KB mentor today.

Sorry folks but this sort of thing really gets my MOM blood boiling.
I really do not think that this is appropriate at all! (On private property, closed road, among like minded silly buggers then different story, or even out and about with others that get off on that sort of thing) but on a 250 themed ride, pitched for all comers but encouraging new riders out and about? Give me strength!!


Yes I acknowledge all the good work you do with newbies, more than I for sure, but seriously, In my mind this sort of stuff belongs on other rides, not newbie ones!

By all means ride the way YOU chose to. But please do not Mentor "our KB newbies" by showing off!


Rant over.

I think that some of you have seriously over reacted to the comments I made in my first post. The actions that I brought to the forum's attention were all about the lack of gear being worn and the example being set by a senior member on a newbie type ride. Sure I am an ATGATT rider myself, that is my personal choice, as is the choice some riders make to not wear the gear. I dont care whether you do or you dont, that is your choice.

As stated above, by all means ride the way you want to, if you want to, but pick your time, place and your ride companions appropriately when you do.

I even acknowledge all the good work that Crashe does. This was never intended to be a flame thread, though it has all the hallmarks of one now, primarily aimed at me. I dont care about that either, everyone is intitled to their opinions, just dont hold me responsible for what others post here.

plus if you can't ride a motorbike with no hands you shouldn't ride a motorbike because it shows that you can't trust yourself or your bike to balance. not saying that if you are a complete noob and are only just learning how to balance a bike while riding you shoud try it, because thats just wrong. anyone with like ten hours of riding experience could do it simple.

also takes longer to stop from doing a wheelie than riding with no hands.

This post kinda sums up why I brought this topic up in the first place. These comments from a 15y/o lad on what he thinks about riding with no hands.

Have a great day guys, stay safe and please set a good example for other riders as you go about your day to day riding experiences.

[Waylander]

This is funny. Wheelies, stopies, breaking speed limit by far more than 10kmh and running from the cops are all perfectly acceptable yet this gets so much shit thrown at it?

[Goblin]

This is just like the coro loop flame war from 2005....3 bins, incriminating photos, people who weren't even there jumping on the band wagon...





I hope Crashe is having a wee chuckle about all this shit.

[marty]

This is funny. Wheelies, stopies, breaking speed limit by far more than 10kmh and running from the cops are all perfectly acceptable yet this gets so much shit thrown at it?

i agree. last coro loop i did i got passed by a couple of kbers- and i was exceeding said limit by more than 100km/h! no-one got flamed about that, in fact, we laughed about it @ the coroglen..........

[Mrs Busa Pete]

You know what guys if you don't want or like this sort of thing then don't put yourself out there as some sort of mentor and hold yourself with high regard telling people of for doing shit then go out and do it yourself. That is what i would class as rightous.

[BigRed2007]

..............

[twinkle]

The criticism is so hypocritical

[Albino]

Wow such polarisation from a thread!

For the record, I don't care how people ride or what they wear.

But, my question is: Is it acceptable for any attendee to ride in a way that could be deemed dangerous (such as undertaking, dangerous overtaking, riding without helmets, stunts etc) while on a KB mentor ride?

Serious question, I was about to refer a young fella I know.

[Joni]

Because it is against "kiwibiker rules" to post negative stuff about a ride.

Good that you popped those words in "..." as there is no such rule within the site rules...

It may be a general trend, and a form of respect...

HOWEVER, if someone is going to get served about not wearing a helmet, then maybe the other incredibly dangerous stuff that took place needs to be looked at too... a KB member over taking on a blind corner on a newbie/mentor ride is a pretty bad example too.

[Ixion]

Will you buggers stop reciting the Rite of AshKente.

But now that I'm here, and since I wasn't there, I will comment.

I usually go on those 250 rides. I didn't go on this one, my spidey sense warned against it and said there would be bins. I don't like rides where people get hurt. Alas the spidey was right again.

Since I wasn't there (I was here), I won't comment on the smashes.

But I do think those rides are a GoodThing, and it would be a shame if the organisers were put off organising them, or if they became a bone of contention. So I will comment on the other aspects.

Firstly, I do not think they have ever been put forward as *mentor* rides. They are 250/newbie *friendly* rides. Ones where those constrained by the limits of a GN250, or their own uncertain skills will not be ignominiously left behind, or made to feel an encumbrance. Noone is purporting to instruct or mentor, except for the occasional "friendly tip".

And, as on all rides newbies will see much done that they, sensibly, will realise it is unwise to emulate.

Three matters seem to have occasioned much discussion. ATGATT, or the lack of it, riding without hands , and riding on the pegs.

The last I will dismiss out of hand. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with riding standing . All learners should learn how to do it, and in many situations you will have better control of a bike standing than sitting.

The handsfree issue seems irrelevant here, the picture shows her hands firmly on the grips. "Hands free" is by way of being Ms Crashe's "signature stunt".Some riders ride on one wheel. Some hang off the side like circus performers. Ms Crashe rides handless. None of these are particularly wise. I do not do any of them. But I am old, and fat, and slow, and the Ultimate Nana. Those younger and more exuberant will express themselves in such ways. As no such activity occured on this ride, no newbies will have been tempted to do anything foolish. Very wise.

As to ATGATT, it is doubtless a very good thing. But like all good things it can be taken to extremes. Some may not realise, that the chippie at Kaiaua is virtually next door to the petrol station. The distance is less than the length of my driveway.

And I have many times ridden down my driveway, when checking adjustments etc, without a helmet. Or gloves. Or jacket. Or boots (Indeed, once, without pants. But that was a different driveway, and another story)

I am certain Ms Crashe is not advocating riding helmetless (Though many of us did back in the day, and survived). But we need to maintain some sense of proportion. Otherwise , where would it end? Full ATGATT when wheeling the bike around the workshop? I've stumbled and fallen doing that, with the bike on top of me. And I dare say if there had been a honking great spike on the floor in the wrong place, I could have hit my head on it and been horribly injured. There wasn't , I didn't, I sha'n't wear gear in the workshop, or down the drive.

I am sure that any newbies present have enough common sense to recognise the difference between a 20 metre 10kph trip next door, and 100kph+ on the open road. If they don't , they have a bigger problem than anything they will observe on a ride.

T'is illegal, to be sure, and if Ms Crashe or the others had been spotted by the ubiquitous Officer Bumblebee, they would have suffered in the pocketbook. But, then, speeding is illegal, too. And riding outside the conditions of ones licence. Both crimes that are not uncommon on those rides (Let's face it, noone buys a motorbike with the intention of sticking to the speedlimit.)

Ms Crashe, as noted, is not a Mentor .Nor am I. I realised long ago that I know next to nothing about riding motorcycles. The only thing I am any good at is not falling off. And riding very slowly. And the rides are not Mentor rides. If they were , I would not go on them, a novice will learn nothing from me except how to ride laughably slowly, and various bad habits. So the whole mentor thing is quite irrelevant.

Certainly experienced riders should not "lead the novices astray". But if the rides were totally po-faced and holy then they would be boring and the novices would not go on them. They are fine as they are, give the organisers a round of thanks, and leave them alone. Some people will do the odd naughty thing. That is part of motorcycling. Always has been, God grant always will be. We break the rules. Good for us.

I am going back to my cave now, this posting on the New KB is a risky business, like passing Officer Bumblebee at 150. One may get away with it, one may not. Hopefully as it is the beginning of the month, none of the mods will be scratching to make up their infraction quotas.

So leave the poor mouse alone, he's almost exsanguinated already, 3cc is a lot for a mouse y'know.

[Joni]

Good to see you here Ixion... Kickaha and I thought that this thread needs Ixion and Motu!

[007XX]

Oh boy! I can't wait for certain individuals to get a hold of this thread...Blood anyone?

Anyhoo...as a fairly recent rider wih admitedly limited skill, I don't really give a hoot if a "mentor" was to decide to goof around with no helmet and / or protecion gear...I wouldn't think of him/her as a great role model though for the younger , more impressionable newbies...

I'm a bit too old to be looking up and copying someone beyond the practices that I deem useful for me to be a better rider...

Wouldn't it be the same though about having newbies trying to keep up on KB rides??? And the more experienced ones whizzing past full blast, while the less experienced ones are trying to keep up...

There has to be a time when the newbies have to use their better judgement, and become accountable for their own decisions (aka: we all know safety gear is necessary...).

[Blackbird]

A very sensible post Ixion and much wisdom in it (apart from your jab at the Mods which was unecessary).

Cheers

Geoff

[ManDownUnder]

2 things here

1) Let's hear both sides of the story. Trial by media ain't a just or proper mode of justice
2) Keep in mind this is a commentary on what not to do - not a personal attack on Crashe.

That said, I personally done condone what I see in that photo, but wait for Crashe to at least explain what she was doing. God knows I'm not perfect and some of my goings on would rightly bring on the scorn of many too...

At the risk of bringing heaping scorn on my self... let he without sin cast the first stone...

Lessons to be learned - I think so. Those after an opportunity to rip Crashe to bits can fuck off.

[Morcs]

What a steaming pile of bollocks.

I cannot even put into words how pathetic this thread is.

Perhaps a PM to Crashe expressing your disappointment in her actions would have been a little more appropriate, instead of what appears to be a PMS fuelled moan about a snip in time lacking any context, hereby propagating the effect of her so-called "blood boiling" actions to the crowd that you were trying to protect.

I have to agree.

When I had a helmetless picture up, I only got shit from it through the rep system. Unfortunately I was outraged and quoted it publicly..

Keep it private guys or at least dont post pics on a public forum - as its evidence to the 5 O right there.