Attitude readjustment

[avgas]

Who you calling princess - that's you in your avatar wearing a dress right?

Its a coat - poor baby cant see.
Anywho we are talking about motorcylists, not mob monkeys on ape swingers.

[Vagabond]

Ah, I stand corrected. That crap is only on KB. Otherwise in da weal world people act differently.

I don't give a flying fig what happens to a Hells Angel or Mongrel Mob fella on a bike.

Actually one of my best mates became a Hell's Angel!

How can you judge an individual without knowing them!





Once I met an Arsehole who was a KB member all Kiwibikers must be twats!

[avgas]

Once I met an Arsehole who was a KB member all Kiwibikers must be twats!

We are, but some of us are better at it cos of practice.

[Vagabond]

We are, but some of us are better at it cos of practice.

At least your head ain't stuck up your arse!

[Grahameeboy]

Bit sanctimonious aren't we? And that goes for a few of the other posts too....

He's entitled to his opinion and I feel it's not a bad one, there are certainly a few people on line I have no intention of meeting.
Trying to excuse peoples bad behaviour simply because they have a similar interest to me is not acceptable, an idiot is an idiot regardless of whether they drive a cage or ride a bike, I don't want them anywhere near me.

So Katman, I'm with you, fuckwits of the world unite...somewhere a long way from me please!

Never thought of it that way, was just making a tongue in chek comment, but respect what you say and yes agree he is entitled to his opinion which goes for respondents too I guess.

[Taz]

Mmmm Beer I like Beer...........

[scumdog]

It's called empathy people....



Nobody said we had to 'be' anything, band of brothers, whatever.

[pritch]

Would you really align yourself with a rapist simply because he rides a motorcycle?

Not in that particular instance, but there are other circumstances where I would do that whatever...

Bikes are a definite community of interest, I ride a Jap bike but when travelling I sometimes nod to 1% ers in roadside cafes, they nod back. Although that might not work if you were 17 and wearing one piece leathers...

A Doctor I know of bought a Harley (see they aren't all accountants and lawyers :-). He used it to tour the country a couple of summers back. What struck him most while he was on his travels was that nobody asked him what he did for a living. The topics were bikes related and he really appreciated that.

[Taz]

And whiskey..... Mmmm whiskey.

[Katman]

Not in that particular instance

Ok, how about just an habitual thief?

[MSTRS:Me]

Ok, how about just an habitual thief?

How would you know?
I'm sure we all have skeletons in the closet (so to speak), but most of 'us bikers' tend not to judge until given reason to do so by any particular individual.

[ManDownUnder]

Motorcycling needs to lose the "it's us against the world" mentality - that's what encourages the Skidmarks of our society. Comments like "above all else he's a biker and a brother" are better off on the big screen in some cheesy Wild Ones remake. People need to stop and realise Motorcycling is just a common interest we have - it's not a bond that binds us.

I think I see what was being said, and if I'm reading it right... well...

My view of the world is not "Us against them". We (motorcyclists) are an integral group within society. As soon as we get the us vs. them attitude we're fucked. "Them" sees "us" competing with them for whatever, put up the defences and the whole thing turns to crap. It's an arms race and it's a waste of time. For the sake of clarity, take it from a couple of viewpoints.

Let's say "Them" are the Hare Krishnas. They want to share their love of the Divine being, inner peace and the joy etc etc etc. As soon as they stand up and say "LISTEN TO US - WE'RE RIGHT!" the rest of society is going to have a Tui moment and carry on their merry way... with a view of Hare Krishnas that's less than what it previously was. But if that same Hare Krishna stops to help someone on the roadside change a tire then carry on, it plants a different seed. It's not going to win me over to their way of life, but it's going to help me relate to them.

Same as bikes. I tried to find SARGE's post about having a biker gang pull over and help him after a breakdown or accident he has. They put him up for the night etc etc etc. I wish I could find it - it's an eye opener. It's all pretty damned simple. We are a community (motorcyclists) within a community (society at large). Treat those around with some respect and watch it come pouring back.

Treat those around you with disdain and... you get the idea. People pat me on the back for helping others left and right and it's not me being a goody two shoes - it's just life in action. As I think it should be. Try it... help someone and have them pay it forward. Others have helped me on oh so many ocassions... so I'm simply paying it forward. not a biggie.

Back to SkidMark. He's a good kid and I'll happily stand in defence of him, or anyone for that matter, anytime the shit's being thrown for no good reason. And KBers seem to be good at that which pisses me off. If Mark needs some pointed advice, and even he would admit he needs more pointy advice that others, then yes, serve it up to him. If you are offering it to attack him then keep it to yourself. It's easy to be clever when you're in the majority, online and anonymous. The guys needs help - so help.

He needs it and he knows that. I think he needs to learn to listen to the answers... or not ask the queston. As someone said recently - you can lead a horse to water...

[PuppetMaster]

Would you really align yourself with a rapist simply because he rides a motorcycle?

leave the cops out of this!!!!

[kaz]

Motorcycling needs to lose the "it's us against the world" mentality - that's what encourages the Skidmarks of our society. Comments like "above all else he's a biker and a brother" are better off on the big screen in some cheesy Wild Ones remake. People need to stop and realise Motorcycling is just a common interest we have - it's not a bond that binds us.

I'm in no position to debate the skidmark stuff (though I've read the threads) but I do think katman makes good points.

Thanks to KB, I feel I belong to a biker community. Of course we all ride for different reasons. Some people like commuting efficiency, others desire a particular image, some are into long weekend rides, many love the sensation of riding, some are into technical matters…

But it’s a community because we actually participate in riding, debate various issues, offer each other support, and share common experiences. We often feel we "know what it's like", and we have empathy and kinship, and knowledge to share.

It gets dodgy if any of these things become a way to exclude others. To me, community is about leading a bigger life, not a smaller one. And this is not the only community I belong to; I play other roles, have other relationships, and other interests. I’d be inclined to stop and help a fellow biker in trouble for sure - perhaps more so because he/she is on two wheels. But I’d stop for a car driver, a pedestrian, or a cyclist too.

So I've never identified with “us against the world” because my community is the world.

[Ixion]

But something that is a bit irksome and tiresome are the "grieving" threads that we seem to delight in on KB, where the only comments that some folk think are allowable are the "Omigod, how terrible! Hope you're feeling better soon," or "RIP, fellow biker", kind of thing.

Yet, whilst banal, there have been numerous occasions where the compilation of such tributes has been forward to the injured, or the grieving, and has apparently been well received. For that purpose, even if no other, they are worthwhile. And, after all, most of the time what else *can* one say?

A question that needs to be asked is whether fair comment is allowed on KB,

No. That has been well established

or are we all about conforming to norms that are implied rather than stated?

Yes. The norms are not particularly implicit, they are the social norms of the Heaven Born - middle class, well to do, conservative, authoritarian, right wing.



As to the original proposition, I'll call any biker brother (or sister). But , not all who ride a motorcycle are bikers. Nor do all bikers ride a motorcycle.

And the elequence of the OP clearly shows us that there are arseholes in every society, biker and non-biker. Just because someone is my brother doesn't mean I agree with him.

But for simplicity I'll assume someone on two wheels is a biker until he/she proves otherwise. 'Tis a title of honour, and courtesy to extend the honour unless there is reason not to.

And the test is in the Biker Code. None of us live up to it all the time to be sure. But we can try.