Robert Taylor and idleidolidyll's political debating thread

[Swoop]

I notice one thing missing in the Robert Taylor and III political debate thread. Where's Robert Taylor?

He starts his shift on The Rock radio station at 3pm.

[idleidolidyll]

Get real. So you are charged with a crime, you go to court and have to prove you didn't do it or you are automatically assumed guilty.
Sorry it doesn't work that way (in general) III made an accusation, Kellyb refuted it. III should make good on his accusation.

Nope, in amerika if you're Bush or the GOp you don't have to go to court; your opposition is as in bed with the corporate money men as you are and there's no acountability.

And I've referenced a location for excellent data; come back in a week after you've read it comprehensively.

[idleidolidyll]

In terms of policy it's neither here nor there.
However I can not remember any party in our history more dishonest and self serving. In that regard this Labour party I feel leads the western world.
Paintings, election pledge cards, changing the law so as they couldn't be prosecuted for breaking it (hell, I wish I could do that), even trying to change the laws around campaigning at election time as they have defies belief.

policy my ass

National will sell NZ to the lowest bidder in a blink.

Clark is at least doing that slowly: neither gets my vote

[idleidolidyll]

[[trying to change the laws around campaigning at election time as they have defies belief.]]

I for one would like to know which foreign power or corporation is buying my government

[Ixion]

Good model, close to federalism?

Guess you'd start by devolving more of central gumint's social management roles to regional versions (states?, councils?) and further to smaller neighbourhood groups.

Makes sense because it allows national infrastructure to be managed by a national group, regional management by that group and gives the possibility of a genuine neighbourhood contribution for the smallest group.

I also like it that it potentially means both regional and local groups would then be on a competitive footing. Don't think you're getting good value for your local taxes? Move. Not happy with the way they're budgeting for schooling or health? Move.

I wonder what range the spread of baby states would take after a decade or two...

Yay. Power to the Soviets.

[idleidolidyll]

yeeeehah! that 125 Raptor sure blew the cobwebs out with it's massive torque and HP

I could barely hang on most of the time!

But back to the political debate: those who will vote for Key instead of Clark, please explain exactly why? Don't just bag Clark, tell us what you think National would do better.

[idleidolidyll]

So assuming you have the power to meld it how you believe society should be. Give us your vision of the ideal USA.

the ideal USA?

at this juncture I'd have to say one that didn't exist at all; the misery and slaughter is has caused in the last 60 years has made it a paragon of ruthlessness and terrorism.

But introducing democracy might help. The Shamocracy they have presently is ridiculous and successive laws have in effect handed control to corporations.

[The Stranger:Me]

Nope, in amerika if you're Bush or the GOp you don't have to go to court; your opposition is as in bed with the corporate money men as you are and there's no acountability.

You speak of accountability yet support klarke?

[SPman]

the ideal USA?

at this juncture I'd have to say one that didn't exist at all; the misery and slaughter is has caused in the last 60 years has made it a paragon of ruthlessness and terrorism.

But introducing democracy might help. The Shamocracy they have presently is ridiculous and successive laws have in effect handed control to corporations.

And to think it was founded by people who believed stuff like this..

"- I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."

or, more importantly -

" - I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion"

because, as with most governments

"Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence."

- Love that Thomas Jefferson!

[Ocean1]

yeeeehah! that 125 Raptor sure blew the cobwebs out with it's massive torque and HP

I could barely hang on most of the time!

But back to the political debate: those who will vote for Key instead of Clark, please explain exactly why? Don't just bag Clark, tell us what you think National would do better.

The lesser of two weevils?

[Mr Merde]

And to think it was founded by people who believed stuff like this..

"- I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs."

or, more importantly -

" - I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion"

because, as with most governments

"Our country is now taking so steady a course as to show by what road it will pass to destruction, to wit: by consolidation of power first, and then corruption, its necessary consequence."

- Love that Thomas Jefferson!

I refer to him often. One of the drafters of the Declaration of Independance.

His political insights are still as relevant today as when he first came up with them.

[SPman]

I refer to him often. One of the drafters of the Declaration of Independance.

His political insights are still as relevant today as when he first came up with them.

Aren't they just!

[Ocean1]

Yay. Power to the Soviets.

Not utterly dissimilar. Slight difference in scale if nothing else.

[The Stranger:Me]

go to www.scoop.co.nz and search there for Black Box Voting

scoop nwe zealand was the first media agency on the planet to break the story and has kept up to speed the whole time: there's screeds and screeds of data

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
As a nerd I find the "security" absolutely unbelievable. Seriously, it is very hard to imagine in my wildest dreams that the reports I am reading are accurate. From what has been described any one of my kids could have tampered with the votes.
You are right, it was a conspiracy, seriously - no one could have designed a security system like that by accident.

Odd too that they would choose to use a jet (Access) database as they are less reliable, less robust, less secure and can handle less data and fewer concurrent connections than other cheap/free offerings even from Micro$oft. The ONLY benefit they offer is ease of tampering.
Who in their right mind would select a database where you are likely to exceed the limits of it's ability to accept new data?

[Waylander]

On that note i'll explain my terminology. I refuse to write 'American' for Yanks. It's insulting to all the other Americans from Canada to Tierra Del Fuego (North America/South America). I reject their hegemony and call them Yanks or AmeriKans instead.

Give up on using the term 'yank' then cause it's insulting to me.
I was born in the South I was raised in the South and I've never been north of the Mason-Dixon. And if you went to any of the southern states and started calling people 'yanks' you'd probably get shot.