Cheesecutter campaign

**yungatart** · 6th January 2008, 09:34

Originally Posted by Meekey_Mouse

But what if we wanted to go for a swim in the swamp?! I'd much prefer the swamp lol

Sooo... It's '08... What are we doin this year as far as the WRB campaign goes?

Nothing planned that I am aware of, but keep getting those petition forms filled out. They will make a difference!

**TOTO** · 6th January 2008, 10:43

Originally Posted by yungatart

Nothing planned that I am aware of, but keep getting those petition forms filled out. They will make a difference!

Forgive my request, but do you have a link for those petition things/forms etc coz I gotta work and cant read the forum whole day to find it. I'll be glad to join the whole compaign and all. Strong support and credit

**TOTO** · 6th January 2008, 11:04

dont worry I found it and have signed up. Thanks.

**MSTRS:Me** · 9th January 2008, 11:27

On 7.12.07 I met with Chris Tremain, Napier National MP. He asked 3 questions in parliament about CC etc...
.
1/. What is TNZ policy regarding the establishment of new Brifen safety barriers on NZ's road network?
.
2/. Does TNZ have any plans to replace any existing Brifen safety barriers on NZs road network?
.
3/. How many kms, if any, of Brifen safety barriers are currently in place on NZs road network?
.

The answers came back from Harry Duynhoven...
1.TNZs policy for the installation of a wire rope barrier system is the same as for all road safety barrier systems. That policy is that a barrier treatment is a recourse only when the risk of leaving the road cannot be managed the the removal, relocation or re-engineering of the hazard. A compliance tested barrier system is then selected that is appropriate to the nature of the hazard being avoided, the type of road traffic, and the road.
.
2. TNZ advises me it has reviewed the use of wire rope safety barrier on state highways, and has no plans to replace any existing installations at this time. TNZs review of the performance of these barriers has determined that they have prevented a number of potentially serious crashes over the years.
.
3. Brifen is a proprietary name for a wire rope barrier system used on state highways. There are a number of other systems in use including Safefence, and public domain systems. TNZ advise me that there is at present 127kms of Brifen brand wire rope barriers installed on NZs state highway network.

So, what did we learn?
The question(s) asked will be answered, but the answer given will be to the letter of the question. Brifen is only one type used and the answer is about this type only. I will guarantee that Harry Dickhead knows exactly what was required in answer but chooses to play the literal card.
Transit are not yet treating us seriously.
Transit will also play games over semantics.
Transit will make their policy fit their action?

**Hitcher** · 9th January 2008, 11:32

Parliamentarians never ask the "hard" questions first up. Having received these answers to these questions (if Chris Tremain wishes to pursue this matter) there are now more pointed questions that can be asked, particularly around the veracity of the safety claims made by TNZ regarding WRB.

**MSTRS:Me** · 9th January 2008, 11:39

So would you like to formulate some really searching questions that I can take back to Chris? Or would you like to ask those questions of your local MP?

**DEATH_INC.** · 9th January 2008, 11:40

Originally Posted by MSTRS

TNZ advise me that there is at present 127kms of Brifen brand wire rope barriers installed on NZs state highway network.

RRRIIIIIGGGGGHHHHTTTT!!!!
There's more than that between here and Hamilhole....

**MSTRS:Me** · 9th January 2008, 11:44

Originally Posted by DEATH_INC.

RRRIIIIIGGGGGHHHHTTTT!!!!
There's more than that between here and Hamilhole....

Yes we know. He answered as to the Brifen brand only

**Ixion** · 9th January 2008, 11:48

The actual answers are not important. No policritter will ever answer a question truthfully or directly.

What is important is that it puts Mr D on notice that the issue is still there. It hasn't quietly faded away, and it's still gaining traction. So it's stilla problem to him.

Accordingly , he will make sure that Transit do not do anything to attract more attention to the issue.

Dripping water wears down hard stone. Constant nagging can wear down even the Grey Sheeple.

**Hitcher** · 9th January 2008, 11:58

Originally Posted by MSTRS

So would you like to formulate some really searching questions that I can take back to Chris? Or would you like to ask those questions of your local MP?

Here's four for starters to help dig a slightly deeper hole for the Minister:

1. What is the basis of "compliance testing" on road barriers of all types erected in New Zealand? Does this include testing barriers once erected to ensure compliance with manufacturers' standards and, if so, what does this involve?

2. Is the Minister aware of moves by European countries to ban and remove WRB systems -- for safety reasons? How does he reconcile this with the "compliance testing" allegedly conducted by TNZ? (Seek leave to table before the House the relevant supporting documents)

3. What length of WRB is currently erected on New Zealand roads administered by TNZ? What plans are in place to erect more WRB and what lengths/distances are involved?

4. In answer to PQ# the Minister claimed that TNZ's review of the performance of WRB systems stated that these barriers had prevented a number of potentially serious crashes over years. Could the Minister please reveal how many crashes, the vehicle types involved, the location and type of WRB system erected, and TNZ's basis for determining "seriousness"?

I hope the Honorable Minister is as cute in answering these as he was with his first lot. "Cute" is a game two can play...

**James Deuce** · 9th January 2008, 12:01

Oi've been thinking.

Motorcyclists seem to focus on visibility as an issue, when in fact visibility, not visibilty is the issue.

Have I gone mad? Not quite.

The orange safety vest isn't the answer.

Getting people to acknowledge that us motorcyclists are the same as those there non-motorcyclists is. Greater visibility as human beings and contributing members of society, not crazed, speed (both kinds) addicted criminals.

So the idea is, Sunday paper magazine section profiles on Motorcyclists who are as far from the common perceptions of motorcylists as is possible.

Problem is we'll need "interesting" people who are happy to reveal stuff about themselves, stuff that over shadows the motorcyclist tag to a large degree.

Interesting would mean that people with tattoos, baldness, facial hair, racers, and specifically those who work in IT would be excluded from being profiled. Those things are all motorcyling norms and also by definition uninteresting.

Questions on personal safety can be woven into these articles, and they can revolve around things like road side barriers, nudge, nudge.

Two things.

1. Who is volunteering to be profiled, or can be volunteered?
2. Who will help me write and present them in a format suitable for publication in a general media interest section?

**Ixion** · 9th January 2008, 12:04

Originally Posted by Hitcher

l
4. In answer to PQ# the Minister claimed that TNZ's review of the performance of WRB systems stated that these barriers had prevented a number of potentially serious crashes over years. Could the Minister please reveal how many crashes, the vehicle types involved, the location and type of WRB system erected, and TNZ's basis for determining "seriousness"?

..

And the basis used by TNZ to determine that the crashes were potentially serious. TNZ are claiming that every time a vehicle hits a WRB a 'potentially serious' crash has been averted (in some cases even 'a fatal crash'). But in reality, without the barrier, a lot of the incidents would have come to nothing. Simply because there wasn't a vehicle in the wrong place on the other side of the road, or the drivers took successful evasive action.

5. Is the Minister aware of initiatives in several European countries to retrofit WRB systems to make them safer for vulnerable road users ? Will the Minister advise the House what steps TNZ have taken to evaluate such retro-fitment for WRB installations in NZ , and the results of such studies (if any) (leave to table etc)

**Hitcher** · 9th January 2008, 12:12

Good comments, Ixion! For political purposes it's always better to take Ministers on a bit of a journey, rather than straight to the destination. It's also advantageous to make a bit of work for their officials in drafting the responses...

You know you've won with this technique when a Minister decides to cut to the chase, rather than to continue/prolong the dance.