Cheesecutter campaign

[Mom]

Ok all of you, I am about to start a campaign of questions to our illustrious leaders, and their associated opposition counterparts.

I have a few of my own mulling around in my brain at the moment.

Is there anything you would like to know? Post it up here and I will ask it of them*!


*Within reason of course, wont ask anything offensive

[MSTRS:Me]

I have searched Transit's website for something I read by them some time ago....but I can't find the reference.
It was stated categorically by Transit that they install per manufacturer's recommendations (yeah right), specifically they DO NOT USE I or H section posts.
These types of post are strung all along the Auckland motorway (north and south of the bridge).
Ask why it is that Transit tells lies.

[WelshWizard]

Just thought you might like to see how they protest on bikes in Wales, the run was for a protest against high fuel prices ,
but note the way they control the Motorway. see ysbytymike pics.
http://www.bikerwales.com/smf/index.php?topic=3607.75

not just one lane , the whole motorway is nder their control.

[boomer]

Just thought you might like to see how they protest on bikes in Wales, the run was for a protest against high fuel prices ,
but note the way they control the Motorway. see ysbytymike pics.
http://www.bikerwales.com/smf/index.php?topic=3607.75

not just one lane , the whole motorway is nder their control.

The jones's must've been furious they couldn't get to the pitt!!!!


;-)

[El Dopa]

Ok all of you, I am about to start a campaign of questions to our illustrious leaders, and their associated opposition counterparts.

I have a few of my own mulling around in my brain at the moment.

Is there anything you would like to know? Post it up here and I will ask it of them*!


*Within reason of course, wont ask anything offensive

Transport minister Mr D states that he rides a bike (NZ Harold of Friday 27th June). What does he ride? Would he like to crash it into a WRB with himself on board?

He further states that WRB are a better alternative than going under the wheels of a truck coming the other way. A WRB is always there. Does Mr D think there will always be a truck coming the other way?

[Blue Babe]

Great Job Guy's. I heard it all over the news today. Well over 7000 signatures sent in... Well done, Now lets hope something is done about them.

[Zapf]

He further states that WRB are a better alternative than going under the wheels of a truck coming the other way. A WRB is always there. Does Mr D think there will always be a truck coming the other way?

WRB's do NOT stop trucks. Its a FACT.

[gunrunner]

It just goes to show those politicans in Welly dont ride and are still getting driven round in their limos (and at speed too eh Helen )

[Nikolai_V]

Ok all of you, I am about to start a campaign of questions to our illustrious leaders, and their associated opposition counterparts.

I have a few of my own mulling around in my brain at the moment.

Is there anything you would like to know? Post it up here and I will ask it of them*!


*Within reason of course, wont ask anything offensive

How many motorcyclists have died on the roads between the start of your anti-Brifen campaign, as a result of:
Disobedience of the road rules
Inappropriate / Excessive speed
Riding under the influence of alcohol / drugs?

Contrast this with how many have died as a result of hitting Brifen? Numbers would be nice...

P.S I know the answers to these questions, and I imagine a few of you would revisit your priorities if you were aware just how many accidents were due to blatant disregard for a) the law (both of physics and the land) and b) the people left behind.

There are bigger issues for motorcyclists to be getting up in arms about, which actually would save lives (of motorcyclists as most in here don`t rate the lives of other motorists)

[Ixion]

Your question is irrelevant.

I do not (within the context of this campaign) care about other motorcyclists. I care about me.

I do not ride in such a fashion that I am unduely worried about being killed as a result of
Disobedience of the road rules
Inappropriate / Excessive speed
or Riding under the influence of alcohol / drugs?

I do however worry about me being killed by a cheesecutter. So I will protest about them.

In fact that is the nub of the objection to cheesecutters: that they will kill perfectly law abiding motorcyclists.

[Mom]

How many motorcyclists have died on the roads between the start of your anti-Brifen campaign, as a result of:
Disobedience of the road rules
Inappropriate / Excessive speed
Riding under the influence of alcohol / drugs?

Contrast this with how many have died as a result of hitting Brifen? Numbers would be nice...

P.S I know the answers to these questions, and I imagine a few of you would revisit your priorities if you were aware just how many accidents were due to blatant disregard for a) the law (both of physics and the land) and b) the people left behind.

There are bigger issues for motorcyclists to be getting up in arms about, which actually would save lives (of motorcyclists as most in here don`t rate the lives of other motorists)

What an interesting post. Imagine you calling this an "anti-Brifen campaign" ! What makes you call it that may I ask? As it is not barrier design centred at all.

For the second time today I will paste the wording of our petition for everyones information.

We, the undersigned, are concerned about the safety of wire traffic barriers and their increasing presence on New Zealand roads and highways. We urge Transit New Zealand, Land Transport New Zealand and the Ministry of Transport to place a moratorium on the use of such barriers until a comprehensive review is undertaken into the effectiveness and safety of wire traffic barriers to all road users, particularly motorcyclists.

Where in that does it mention Brifen barriers? I know a small bit about them too FWIW. What we are asking is that no more WRMB's (cheesecutters) get installed untill a complete review is carried out.

I am genuinely interested in your comments too, so please dont think I am being sarcastic.

[MSTRS:Me]

And how many have died through no fault of their own? The sensible 'we' do what we can, and the law is there to catch individuals breaking it. We will continue with our efforts to make life safer for motorcyclists and you won't stop us.

[El Dopa]

WRB's do NOT stop trucks. Its a FACT.

It was more the implication by Harry D that there would always be a truck coming the other way, and a bike/rider in trouble and sliding across the centre line would always end up under its wheels if good ol' transit hadn't taken the trouble to stick a WRB there to help us out.

Clearly, if there's a barrier there, the bike and rider will slide into it. On the other hand, there may not (and in fact probably won't) be a truck coming the other way. Therefore, if the barrier isn't there, you slide into the ditch on the opposite side of the road instead.

Of the three options (barrier/truck/ditch), I prefer 'none of them'. But the ditch sounds like the least bad option.

[Nikolai_V]

What an interesting post. Imagine you calling this an "anti-Brifen campaign" ! What makes you call it that may I ask? As it is not barrier design centred at all.

For the second time today I will paste the wording of our petition for everyones information.

We, the undersigned, are concerned about the safety of wire traffic barriers and their increasing presence on New Zealand roads and highways. We urge Transit New Zealand, Land Transport New Zealand and the Ministry of Transport to place a moratorium on the use of such barriers until a comprehensive review is undertaken into the effectiveness and safety of wire traffic barriers to all road users, particularly motorcyclists.

Where in that does it mention Brifen barriers? I know a small bit about them too FWIW. What we are asking is that no more WRMB's (cheesecutters) get installed untill a complete review is carried out.

I am genuinely interested in your comments too, so please dont think I am being sarcastic.

Not a problem. When the first Brifen (WRSB for non industry people) were installed years and years ago, the question of their safety was looked at, and an international literature search done. Based upon this, the thicker (Brifen) type was adopted, as it was acknowleged that the wire rope, the 'cheesecutter" part if you insist on calling in that, was not really a hazard, rather it was the posts that any non-concrete barrier system require that would harm errant motorcyclists.

It was also acknowleged that the thicker cables were safer than the thinner ones installed in Europe.

I think that putting a moratorium on the installation of new brifen would cost far more lives than would ever be taken by their being installed. The research has been done, its available, and in my opinion (not that of Transit, LTNZ or the MOT) a moratorium is indefensible.

I feel that the motorcycling community would be better served by its representatives if they were campaiging for tougher licensing standards, realistic learner laws, and engaging in some social engineering to lower the apalling death rate among motorcyclists, which is predominantly due to the factors listed above.

While it may be nice for some riders to nurture the us and them mentality seen in this post, the truth is that mainstream acceptance of motorcycling is at least partially prevented by the actual and percieved risk of dying on a motorcycle. The perpetuation of that myth in the media in the name of the anticheesecutter campaign is counterproductive.

Given the huge number of people still around today due to the wrsb installations around the place, I`m not seeing a huge public buy-in to the campaign. As I said far more people are still around today because of them than have been injured/killed (and for the record all barriers have the potential to kill and maim - they`re only installed where hitting the barrier is better than whatever its protecting). I cant speak for all roading / transportation people and wouldn`t presume to, but I can say that the risks of any barrier installation are considered in the planning stage, alternatives are weighed up and the most appropriae treatment selected.

Common sense dictates that if concrete barriers were the be-all and end all that they`d be everywhere - strangely they are not. They have their own special issues with regard to being struck by motorists.

I dont expect to change anyones mind, i`m not that naive - just thought i`d put my 2c in.

[Nikolai_V]

Your question is irrelevant.

I do not (within the context of this campaign) care about other motorcyclists. I care about me.

I do not ride in such a fashion that I am unduely worried about being killed as a result of
Disobedience of the road rules
Inappropriate / Excessive speed
or Riding under the influence of alcohol / drugs?

I do however worry about me being killed by a cheesecutter. So I will protest about them.

In fact that is the nub of the objection to cheesecutters: that they will kill perfectly law abiding motorcyclists.

And save motorists, law abiding or otherwise...

Shall we replace them with W-section or Thrie beam (Armco) as these also have posts which will kill / maim you? Or let you slide over the cliff that the barrier is protecting you from? Into head-on traffic? I mean it`s your choice to do all those things...

More likely to kill you (statistically speaking) are crashing due to excessive speed on a corner, dangerous overtaking, riding while impaired. I ride - the barriers dont concern me in the slightest - no more than all the other roadside hazards that you conveniently ignore.

Your concern for your fellow motorists is touching.