Cheesecutter campaign

**MSTRS:Me** · 2nd July 2008, 17:38

Originally Posted by Mom

The Dome Valley north of Warkworth is a classic example of this. If I meet a car that has crossed the centre lane and heading directly towards me I have 2 choices. Head on into the car, or sideways into a cheesecutter!

Of course the fact that Transit have reduced the speed limit through there to 80km/ph to improve safety, has to be factored into the equation, guess I will be looking at limbs severed hitting the cheesecutter, rather than instant death at 100km/ph. Or I could always take my chances flying over the car that I hit.

You may avoid that car by veering to your right and so passing him on his left. But can you avoid the car in it's legal lane behind him?
And if/when there is a cc down the centre as well, you've lost that direction as a possibility...we know that the wire fence will distort into your lane as much as 3m, so you can now choose...1. Into the car (wrapped in cc) or 2. Left and into the line of posts/wire down the road edge.
Lovely choice. Sucks to be you.

**Dakara** · 2nd July 2008, 17:41

Originally Posted by Ixion

I argued with Transit about them in 2004 (a Mr Flanagan, I think ?). Their rebuttal argument then was "No one has been killed by them, so what's the problem? " .

Now it is "Only one person has been killed by them , so whats the problem ?"

How many deaths DO Transit require before admitting there's a problem ?

When it no longer becomes an "Unfortunate accident" and they have enough to form a statistic.

"Hazard Identification" is a big part of the LTSA License testing system, yet when we identify one it needs to be littered with bodies to be recognized.

**huck farley** · 2nd July 2008, 17:42

All the Yakking on here isn't going to shift the fukn things. I have been to see both the Nat and Labour candidates and asked them just what they intend to do if the Nat bloke gets back in. And asked the Labour office just what they would do. The Nat Bloke says he will talk to the Minister about them. But he hasn't a problem with them personally. The Labour bloke reckoned he is against them and has voiced his opinion at conference level. They will all be after your vote soon the slimy bastards. Meantime you could do the same and ring the electorate office in your town and put the Poli candidates on the spot. If we piss enough of them of it will be the talk of bull shit castle (the Beehive)
They are deathtraps and until a high ranking cabinet minister's kid is involved in an accident and his or her body parts have to be scraped of the road fuck all will be done. But by putting pressure on the major parties we might get lucky and get a few on our side. I say go for it . As it is only a phone call or better still a visit to see his/her's local candidates.

**Mom** · 2nd July 2008, 17:48

Originally Posted by MSTRS

You may avoid that car by veering to your right and so passing him on his left. But can you avoid the car in it's legal lane behind him?
And if/when there is a cc down the centre as well, you've lost that direction as a possibility...we know that the wire fence will distort into your lane as much as 3m, so you can now choose...1. Into the car (wrapped in cc) or 2. Left and into the line of posts/wire down the road edge.
Lovely choice. Sucks to be you.

But this road has come in for so many safety improvements over the years, it is a huge black spot. Transit have made this road SAFER! Interestingly I used to commute it on a bike 2 up for many years. Have driven it regularly since 1979. Never come to grief once.

About the scariest thing I have ever experienced in there was on my GN a few years ago, being tailgated by a wanker in a Subaru, who about ran me off the road as he overtook me around a blind left hand bend. Bear in mind I own my bit of road when I ride too! No shoulder hugging for me.

He obviously did not want to cross the centre line, though he did, so took my space on the road. All I can say is thank God there was not a cheesecutter to my left, as I ducked onto the shoulder to avoid said dickhead.

**MSTRS:Me** · 2nd July 2008, 17:53

Then your only option is to keep your mirrors clean and go faster than anyone behind you. And hope that the ones coming the other way stay on their side. And that there is no spilt diesel for you to take a slide in.
Did I miss anything?

**WelshWizard** · 2nd July 2008, 17:55

Originally Posted by Nikolai_V

And save motorists, law abiding or otherwise...

Shall we replace them with W-section or Thrie beam (Armco) as these also have posts which will kill / maim you? Or let you slide over the cliff that the barrier is protecting you from? Into head-on traffic? I mean it`s your choice to do all those things...

More likely to kill you (statistically speaking) are crashing due to excessive speed on a corner, dangerous overtaking, riding while impaired. I ride - the barriers dont concern me in the slightest - no more than all the other roadside hazards that you conveniently ignore.

Your concern for your fellow motorists is touching.

Tell that to the widows of the drivers killed when a lorry went through the WRB ( Brifen Barriers).
Sorry you come over like an employee of a Brifen manufacturer, these things are being proven all over the world to be more dangerous than ever considered, you will find more dead among car drivers who have had the misfortune to be on the receiving end of these Brifen failures, check out some of the links posted on the CC threads on KB, even one Road Engineer from Holland has made it clear that these things are not safe.

**Mom** · 2nd July 2008, 17:59

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Then your only option is to keep your mirrors clean and go faster than anyone behind you. And hope that the ones coming the other way stay on their side. And that there is no spilt diesel for you to take a slide in.
Did I miss anything?

Surely you can not be suggesting I exceed the posted speed limit?

Probably, you have missed the odd wind gusts that find their way through the place could be a potential issue, gusts of draft dissplaced air from heavy vehicles zooming past going the other way, ummmm.... Best I get off my bike and push it through there then. There goes my lunches at Mangawhai on the odd weekend then. Dang!

**RiderInBlack** · 2nd July 2008, 18:00

Originally Posted by Nikolai_V

Of these 3 were fatal - one was someone riding into teh rail of a bridge so I kind of discount this as a darwin award candidate rather than blaming the rail (no rail and hed have drowned so...)
.

Are you that sure he would have drowned? I could fall into water as a biker and have a good chance of surviving. Not trapped in the vehicle as it goes down. Yes it would be a matter of luck but still I have better chance of surviving that than hitting a WRB. On parts of Ruakaka/Waipu Straights, have seen barrier put up to "Protect" road users from going into the tidal flats. I'd rather land in the tidal flats than hit one of these barriers. You got ta question where some of the barriers are being placed. Are they really increasing road safety it ALL the places they have been put?

**Dakara** · 2nd July 2008, 18:04

Stolen from WelshWizards sig... this says it all really:

http://www.concretebarrier.org.uk/

**MSTRS:Me** · 2nd July 2008, 18:06

Originally Posted by RiderInBlack

Are they really increasing road safe it ALL the places they have been put?

In a word...NO. Quite the opposite, in fact.
And it's strange that one will find them using stats to install this shit...*Someone died here in a freak accident so let's make sure it can't happen again* BUT in the case of existing wires "Someone died here. It was his fault. So all barriers including this one stay*

**Mom** · 2nd July 2008, 18:20

Originally Posted by huck farley

All the Yakking on here isn't going to shift the fukn things.....
but by putting pressure on the major parties we might get lucky and get a few on our side. I say go for it . As it is only a phone call or better still a visit to see his/her's local candidates.

Absolutely! Thank you for taking the time to bring this to your MP's/potential MP's attention. All we need now is for others to join the letter writting/email/electorate office visits brigade.

Dont forget to spread this message to other road users too.

These things are not safe for anyone. Trucks go over them, cars can go under and over them, bikers risk their limbs when they contact them at as slow as 70km/ph, we can be killed at legal road speeds.

PS: I have a list of Parliament Press Secretaries for anyone that wants to contact one of them. Note to self, get these added to the www.cheesecutter.co.nz website

**Ixion** · 2nd July 2008, 18:35

Originally Posted by MSTRS

You may avoid that car by veering to your right and so passing him on his left. But can you avoid the car in it's legal lane behind him?
And if/when there is a cc down the centre as well, you've lost that direction as a possibility...we know that the wire fence will distort into your lane as much as 3m, so you can now choose...1. Into the car (wrapped in cc) or 2. Left and into the line of posts/wire down the road edge.
Lovely choice. Sucks to be you.

I avoided a very nasty accident a few years ago, when a car shot out of a side road and collided at speed with the car two places ahead of me,. I could have stopped, but I doubted the Jag behind me could. So I veered across the road between the traffic and from the ditch on the opposite side of the road, watched the Jag slide straight into the tangle of metal. The jag driver was severely injured, I would have been killed if I had not been able to cross to the wrong side of the road. In that case a centre barrier would have killed me even if I never hit it. (couldn't go left, two lane road and the lane to my left was already impacting)

**Nikolai_V** · 2nd July 2008, 21:49

Originally Posted by RiderInBlack

Yep, can trace posts relating ta Cheesecutters/Wire Rope Barriers on KB dating as far back 2003 (which is when KB started). Do we really need more deaths relating to WRB before they wake up and take all road users in account before installing safety barriers?

The wire rope barriers have been used in NZ since the mid eighties (from memory it was SH8 beside the new Lake Dunstan where they were installed first). So they`ve been around that long... It would be interesting to see how many peoples lives had been saved by them in the intervening years.

**MSTRS:Me** · 2nd July 2008, 21:52

You will never know. It's not possible to state that lives were saved in a strike since you can never know what the outcome would be without the WRB. A guess is all.'
But we can know how many were killed by them.

**Maha** · 2nd July 2008, 21:57

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Then your only option is to keep your mirrors clean and go faster than anyone behind you. And hope that the ones coming the other way stay on their side. And that there is no spilt diesel for you to take a slide in.
Did I miss anything?

Yeah, option B... Take woodcoks rd to SH16 and up to Wellsford.
Its 80ks through the Dome now and the Five O

seem to pop up when you least expect it....the beggers!