Cheesecutter campaign

[El Dopa]

The Monash University studies should be freely available on their website. I'm not sure if the Adelaide one's are.

[Skunk]

As a side note to current discussions: I have printed about 100 electrostatic decals if anybody wants them. They are safe to stick to any smooth surface (glass, metal, paintwork etc)

I don't want to post them out one at a time as they cost enough to get printed. So if there are areas that want them someone from that area can get in touch.

[WelshWizard]

Media Release

PETER GUTWEIN, MHA
Shadow Minister for Infrastructure
Austrailia

Friday, 25th January 2008

Wire rope barrier concerns

Shadow Minister for Infrastructure, Peter Gutwein, has called on the State Government to consider the views of the Tasmanian Motorcycle Council relating to the roll out of wire rope barriers along the State’s major highways.

Mr Gutwein said the Council was growing increasingly worried that Infrastructure Minister, Jim Cox, was ignoring their concerns regarding the safety of the barriers for motorcycle riders, and the ongoing costs for the maintenance of the barriers.

“The Council is very concerned that these types of barriers will lead to an increase in deaths and injury to motorcycle riders while also costing Tasmanian taxpayers for the on-going maintenance that is required to keep them in order,” Mr Gutwein said.

“I have been made aware that a number of European countries that have previously supported the use and rollout of wire rope barriers are now replacing them with barriers that take into account the needs of all road users including motorcyclists.

“In Britain, the Netherlands and Norway wire rope barriers are no longer being rolled out and in some cases are being dismantled and replaced with metal guards or concrete barriers.

“These barriers may be cheap and easy to install initially, however the Minister must outline what the costs are for the ongoing upkeep and repair of the barriers compared to other types of barriers.”


Pity Dunny does not read information about barriers before counting pennies in the short term.

[Genestho]

Hmmm

Harry doesnt seem to be a very pleasant bloke in the flesh from what I hear. Goodluck if you meet with him. My co-campaigner had a most unpleasant experience with him, he was arrogant, bullying and very unprofessional.
Which considering what we've been and going through doesnt faze us in the least and I guess means whatever we're doing is working. Its yet another character building process.

If you can get to the guy that wrote the article in the Dom, he might be a great ally, vested interest or not..

Good to see your all still cracking the whip

[sunhuntin]

As a side note to current discussions: I have printed about 100 electrostatic decals if anybody wants them. They are safe to stick to any smooth surface (glass, metal, paintwork etc)

I don't want to post them out one at a time as they cost enough to get printed. So if there are areas that want them someone from that area can get in touch.

you are a legend sir... i love your stickers, they are great. still have mine, but with the sale of the 500 [and its windscreen...] i now have nowhere to display where it wont fall off.

[The Stranger:Me]

So is Dennis Davis correct when he states that "Currently there is no evidence of wire-rope barriers posing any more of a danger to motorcyclists than other barriers?

[WelshWizard]

So is Dennis Davis correct when he states that "Currently there is no evidence of wire-rope barriers posing any more of a danger to motorcyclists than other barriers?

Many thanks for the artical,
after reading I am left wondering what planet Dennis Davis lives on,
he tries to downplay the fact that WRB are loseing favour in many of the countries of Eutope and some have actualy banned there use,

He claims that concrete needs space and implies that concrete would have been considered along Centennial Highway, but the road was not wide enough to accomadate Concrete,
What about the Southern Motorway from Auckland, enough room there for concrete and only one line of Concrete would be required instead of two lines of WRB's.

He makes no mention of the cars and Trucks that have crossed through the WRB's Cars can still go under WRB's and through them as per Falcon on the CC website, and if he looks at the link to the students that died in the Mazda that went under the WRB's in Nebraska he will find that this has heppened before, and the Truck that just rolled through the WRB in Oct 2007 is another example of there failure the Souther Motorway .

Most vehicals that come into concrete Barriers glance off unless hitting at an acute angle, same factors apply to a motorcyclist, only difference being that a glancing action on a bike is going to be as deadly as hitting at an acute angle as all the WRB's do is guide the motorcyle into the post, ( there design is such that the post are supposed to give way and aid the slowing down of a car or lorry,

for those who still dought, read the cut and paste of an e-mail with links you can follow up as to what research has been done in the States


Dear Mr. **************


One of my colleagues suggested that you contact Clay Gabler at VA Tech [gabler@vt.edu] as he has done some work on motorcycle crashes with barriers. Also try Nick Artimovich, FHWA, (Nick.Artimovich@dot.gov).



Jessica Fomalont

Librarian

Transportation Research Board

500 Fifth St., NW

Washington, DC 20001

USA

(202) 334-2989

(202) 334-2527 (fax)

jfomalont@nas.edu

and the following statement

Corp. Authors
/ Publisher:
· National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov

400 7th Street, SW

Washington, DC 20590 USA

Publication Date:
20050600

Description:
13p; Figures; Photos; References(7); Tables(7)

Media Type:
Web

Languages:
English

Abstract:
Roadside protection systems such as steel guard rails or concrete barriers were originally developed to protect occupants of cars and/or trucks – but not to protect impacting motorcycle riders. Motorcycle rider crashes into such barriers have been identified as resulting in severe injuries and hence has become a subject of road safety research.

Please note the statement

Motorcycle rider crashes into such barriers have been identified as resulting in severe injuries

As this statement is made by a USA based authority they will have far more evidence about crashes than even NZ can handle after all they have over 3 million people in the States compared to our nearly 4 million.
so they will have far better ideas about what is identified as a servere

steel guard rails are no better than WRB's they still have post exposed at least they have found in their report that concrete is mainly a danger when hit at acute angle

[swbarnett]

He claims that concrete needs space and implies that concrete would have been considered along Centennial Highway, but the road was not wide enough to accomadate Concrete,

The problem here is that WRB isn't even installed according to the manufacturers specifications. When's the last time anyone saw a 6m wide concrete barrier? If there's room for a WRB there's room for concrete.

[WelshWizard]

The problem here is that WRB isn't even installed according to the manufacturers specifications. When's the last time anyone saw a 6m wide concrete barrier? If there's room for a WRB there's room for concrete.

True but we have to remember we are dealing with TNZ and Dunjovin here and they see a small gap as WRB's I think maybe they need to RTFM on these things before engageing their tounges, while the brain is still in neutral

Sorry folks not many things get me mad but stupid is as stupid does as far as TNZ and Dunjovin are concearned

[WelshWizard]

THis may not be about WRB's but this e-mail that I recieved covers some of the things used by Dunyjovin re Motorcycle crash data, it is worth his time to look read and note the e-mail and its links as this shows how responcable minister should be handleing motorcycle safety.

RRF Mc-Research

Transport for London's motorcycle safety video

1. I annex the description and URL of a motorcycle safety
video that, as I understand, Transport for London broadcast as
an advertisement on British TV in the London area earlier this
month.
I don't have a television set, and can't currently play
videos. But I did hear the similar audio advertisement that
TfL broadcast on the radio.

[In the annex I give the URL of the description first. The URL
of the video follows.

If anyone can save and circulate the video, I am sure that
other forum members would appreciate receiving it.]

2. If the content of the video is the same as the content of
the radio advertisement it will make the points, as I remember
them, that:
* People underestimate the time of arrival of small objects
* People misestimate the speed and distance of motorcycles.

3. If so, by the standards of motorcycle safety advertisements,
the video would represent very sophisticated stuff!
Certainly I have never before heard or seen any
advertisement make the same points.

Instead all I have heard or seen is a constant reiteration of
variants exclusively on one or other of the two themes: 'Look
out for motorcycles!' (ie lack of conspicuity of motorcycles);
or 'Think motorcycle!' (ie lack of expectation of motorcycles).

4. What is the source in the research literature of the
assertions that Transport for London makes in the
advertisement?

I am not up-to-date on the motorcycle perception literature,
so that I depend upon other forum members to help.

Mark Horswill has published recently on the subject.
There were also not so long ago Martin Langham and Graham
Hole.
And there may well be others.

5. As to the importance of knowing Transport for London's
source, I've often pointed out as a glaring research need the
conduct of a study to establish by a satisfactory method the
errors of misestimation of the speed and distance of an
approaching motorcycle that observers make.

[People assume that such a study will find that observers
overestimate the time of arrival of a slower vehicle, but
underestimate the time of arrival of a faster vehicle.
They assume that the crossover from overestimation to
underestimation will take place at the speed of travel
that is the normal speed of traffic on the road.
But in road safety assumptions must vitally be tested
and verified.]

Likewise I've pointed out the need of a study to establish the
threshold figures of the rate of change of angle subtended at
the observer's eye that a small object must make in order for
the observer to be physically able to estimate the object's
speed.

[I suspect, on the basis of some rough-and-ready preliminary
findings that are digested by Dr Brian Hills in Hills 1980,
that, in head-on view, the rate of change of angle subtended
of an approaching motorcycle may often fall below the
threshold figure for detection by the human eye.
If so other road users will not physically be able
to estimate the motorcycle's speed of approach, and so,
rightly or wrongly, be forced to rely upon the expectation
that it is travelling, say, at the normal speed of other
traffic on the road.]

So it would be excellent news if it turns out that a
satisfactory study of either type has now been conducted.

Stephen Prower

Stevenage

Saturday 29 March 2008

--------------------

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...sing.transport
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/vide...rtising.london

Livingstone unveils road safety advert

Mark Sweney
guardian.co.uk
Wednesday March 5 2008

London mayor Ken Livingstone has unveiled the first in a series
of TV ad campaigns that aim to cut accidents on the capital's
roads by seeking to raise awareness of motorbikes and cyclists
among younger drivers.

The first TV ad campaign, created by ad agency M&C Saatchi,
focuses on urging drivers to be more aware of an increase in
motorcyclists on London's streets with the onset of spring.

Launching this week, the first ad uses the strapline "Give
motorcyclists a second thought".

The first ad uses the image of an optical illusion to illustrate
how the mind can be tricked by certain visual information.

M&C Saatchi's campaign points out that drivers often believe
that small objects, such as motorcyclists, take longer to
approach than bigger ones, such as cars.

The TV ad is the first of three TV ad campaigns that are being
run by the mayor and Transport for London.

"We are investing nearly £50m on road safety this year, the most
that has ever been invested, and this spring road safety
campaign is part of this work, using innovative approaches to
get messages across to road users about the need to take care on
London's roads," said Livingstone.

The other campaigns, following later in the month, will promote
cycling safety and responsible driving among young drivers.

"This campaign highlights specific behaviours that lead to high
incidences of collisions on London's roads involving vulnerable
road users," said David Brown, Transport for London's managing
director of surface transport.

"The campaign also targets young drivers by focusing on the
consequences of driving unlicensed or uninsured, speeding and
driving under the influence of drugs."

[END]

_._,_.___

[sAsLEX]

True but we have to remember we are dealing with TNZ and Dunjovin here and they see a small gap as WRB's I think maybe they need to RTFM on these things before engageing their tounges, while the brain is still in neutral

Maybe all we need is a case where someone who crashes into these barriers sue the contractor who installed them for doing so incorrectly...... then who would put them up?

[Hitcher]

One of life's "pleasures" involves an occasional trip to Auckland to truly appreciate how blessed we are to live somewhere else. Even Harare now has appeal.

On this latest traverse of the City Where New Zealand's Population Is The Most Dense, I was appalled at the extent of cheesecutter, particularly on what passes for the Waikato Expressway. Frightening. Particularly when combined with some suboptimal behaviour from cage drivers.

[DEATH_INC.]

Yep, the expressway is a fine example of not what to do...I had the pleasure of riding up there yesterday with some dick in a Previa trying to push his way past on my left, on a single lane. Pretty scary, I'd have just let 'em past but Draco was in front of me and I didn't want him pushing her into the cutters either....

[Blue Babe]

One of life's "pleasures" involves an occasional trip to Auckland to truly appreciate how blessed we are to live somewhere else. Even Harare now has appeal.

Just wondered if you have ever been to Harare?

[WelshWizard]

Just wondered if you have ever been to Harare?

Forget Harare, I know what he means, and personaly I would rather ride the Karoo without water than some of the road they have WRBed here in NZ,
And yes I have riden in the Karoo before so I know what its like when it get up to 50c + when you cross it.