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Thread: I can't see the problem with our road toll?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphinus View Post
    But how do you keen vehicles in some semblance of good mechanical repair?

    Edit: or do you mean rego?
    Those countries that don't have WOF systems tend to find it makes little difference to the quality of the fleet's service. I know the cops in W Aust (for eg) do occasional spot-checks on the more obvious things like tread depth though.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunhuntin View Post
    that could work... i do think that while a station may loose a few sales due to having an onsite guard or cop, the returns would be bigger and better due to customers feeling safer all round.
    or maybe have a second type of security guard, one with the power to arrest and issue fines, but doesnt hold the title of cop.
    an undercover car could work, as it would be amongst staff cars, and most customers arent in often enough to know who drives what [even my daily customers dont realise that the motorbike is mine] so an unmarked car could hide quite nicely in full view.
    I strongly agree with this sentiment.

    Why should owners of unregistered vehicles use our Roading and ACC systems for free.

    Isn't that Thieft?

    If you cant buy alcohol unless you can prove your 18 years old then it follows that you should not be allowed to buy Fuel unless you can prove you have current registration for the vehicle you are attempting to fill.

    As registration is only avalible if you first have a current warrant then you can be sure owners of unwarranted and unregistered vehicles will find it difficult to obtain fuel for these vehicles.

    Registration certificates are already bar coded so it's a simple matter of your swipping your registration card. Scanning cameras can read the number plate of the vehicle and cross check it with the swiped registration to maintain a high level of integrity and unlock the pump before the fuel is delivered to said vehicle.

    That way you don't need to pay police or security.

    All service stations will be equally affected so no one will be dissadvantaged.

    This should take care of the majority of unregistered/unwarrented vehicles on our roads.

    However there will always be those who attempt to cheat.

    Cops can mop up whats left with spot inspections as per usual.

    Two guess what the Namby Pamby bleeding heart PC liberals will think of this though.

    Despite what John Kirwan says, Kiwis need to harden up and stop taking shit, cos we are becoming a nation of Soft Cocks!
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romeo View Post
    ..............Lethality Comparison: Motorcycling versus Smoking[/CENTER]


    ...........
    ..............Is it the swift horrific nature of motorcycle accidents versus the quiet, creeping diseases of smoking?...........
    Interesting points and you are right about the "appearance" of the deaths. Acute (motorcycle) vs Chronic (smoking). The last paper I did at uni was a Risk Management Paper and there was some really interesting examples of how people dont even bat an eyelid about chronic conditions i.e. chemical dumps slowly leaking causing cancer and acute conditions such as nuclear power plants as a neighbour. Most would rather live next to the chemical dump even though the rate of deaths could be many times higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by davereid View Post
    Of course if our roads were wider, with adequate capacity for the number of vehicles on them and decent median barriers, the head-on would be a thing of the past.

    Then gradually replace traffic lights with round-abouts to make fail-to-yield accidents non fatal.

    But we can't blame road engineering because... well just because.
    You obviously dont know very much about engineering
    a - wider roads = higher speeds (ever noticed how everybody unconsciously speeds up on passing lanes)
    b - roundabouts only work where the traffic flows from all approached are relatively similar. If you have a highly tidal flows i.e. most traffic from one or two approaches roundabouts have very high delays compared to signals and they are not much safer - they just change the severity and type of crashes.

    There are three aspects to road safety - the three E's Engineering, Education and Enforcement. I'm and engineer so kinda bias but engineering out all the hazards which in a extreme case means dead straight roads with robots driving would be damn boring. If you look at the crash reports (I've looked at a "few" now) many of them are driver not paying attention, alcohol, etc etc which there is no way you can engineer out (from a road design perspective). Lastly there is the enforcement side of things which picks up the people intentionally driving stupidly.

    The engineering side of things has been hammered to death over the past 15 years - there are very few proper black spots left, most are grey spots. Education has had a pretty good push over the past 10sih years. Enforcement is ongoing but I personally think it is time to head towards targeting dangerous driving rather than speeding etc. Problem is that prosecuting dangerous driving is much harder than speeding. This is because dangerous driving is not measurable rather it is discression based.

    Cheers R

    P.S. Just seen P38's signature - maybe I should have kept my mouth shut!
    Last edited by cooneyr; 24th December 2007 at 11:42. Reason: P.S.
    "The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools." - Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

  4. #34
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    thats a good idea... maybe have something on the license, like a chip, and scan that. people forget the essential stuff as it is without adding more things to remember. ive had so many have to run back to their cars to get their eftpos card or whatever.
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  5. #35
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    Oh, yes. And we could extend this further. You should have to swipe your licence too. Then the system can cross match your licence info with the rego info. And if your licence doesn't cover the vehicle you're filling, no fuel. And the camera photographing the plates could also check for an L plate. L licence, no L plate no fuel.

    But what about diesels who haven't paid their RUC? Can't have them getting away with anything. Have to be some way for the system to read the vehicle mileage. And scan the RUC sticker thing.

    But what if someone takes the rego sticker AND plates from a registered vehicel and puts them on an unregistered one. Horrors! They might get fuel ! So we need to extend the system a bit, and have it read the VIN of the vehicle. Still got a problem though , cos we don't know if the licence the driver is presenting (see above) is actually his. What we need is for all drivers to , by law, have a microchip implanted in the foreheads. And special little helmets at the pumps that you put on, so it can read the micro chip.

    FFS. Have you people nothing better to do than whine and bitch about some unknown dude whose rego has lapsed. Get a life, the Warewhare will have them on special on Boxing Day.
    Last edited by Ixion; 24th December 2007 at 13:10. Reason: RUC , not RTC
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  6. #36
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    An old person I knew had a massive heart attack at the wheel, the car slowed but nudged a lamp post as it stopped.
    Her death was recorded as a road fatality!!!!
    “- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    FFS. Have you people nothing better to do than whine and bitch about some unknown dude whose rego has lapsed. Get a life, the Warewhare will have them on special on Boxing Day.
    Some things are over the top, but in this case we're just trying to discuss alternative methods to reduce road fatalities than the good ol' "Speed = DEATH!"

    I just filled up the cage 10mins ago, and asked the attendant how many unwarranted/rego'd car's he'd noticed in the last month.. At least a dozen he said, thought a cop checking cars in stations was a great idea. "Would catch all the other things going on" he said, "Drunk driving, drug deals etc. Had a guy come in here reeking of alcohol, asked him if he was driving... 'Mind your own business' he replied, so I was straight on the phone to the cops"

  8. #38
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    How on earth does whether a vehicle is registered or not affect the 'road toll' ? Maybe the system should also check whether anyone buying fuel has paid their income tax ?
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    How on earth does whether a vehicle is registered or not affect the 'road toll' ?
    No rego often means no warrant. no warrant means either:
    Vehicle is not roadworthy, brakes, tyres etc are faulty.
    You dont care, does this mean you are disqualified? More likely to drive drunk?

  10. #40
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    What nonsense. Are you seriously claiming that someone who has neglected to renew their rego is thereby evidenced as a drunken disqualified driver driving an unroadworthy vehicle ? Would you care to extend it further and show that they are also paedophiles , dope smugglers and bite the heads off fluffy pink kittens?

    A lack of a rego label means either that the vehicle's owner has neglected to renew it (because they forgot; haven't had time; have renewed and the new label is in the post; can't afford it until pay day; whatever) ; or the vehicle is indeed registered but the new label is not displayed . Or maybe someone pinched the label (happened to me twice now).

    Much the same goes for WoF. It may mean that there is something about the vehicle that would fail a warrent . Which may, or may not, have a bearing on roadworthiness (pipes too loud doesn't affect road safety for instance. Ditto emission stuff). Or , it may equally well be that the vehicle is completely roadworthy and the owner just hasn't jumped through the necessary bureaucratic hoops.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Oh, yes. And we could extend this further. You should have to swipe your licence too. Then the system can cross match your licence info with the rego info. And if your licence doesn't cover the vehicle you're filling, no fuel. And the camera photographing the plates could also check for an L plate. L licence, no L plate no fuel.

    But what about diesels who haven't paid their RTC? Can't have them getting away with anything. Have to be some way for the system to read the vehicle mileage. And scan the RTC sticker thing.

    But what if someone takes the rego sticker AND plates from a registered vehicel and puts them on an unregistered one. Horrors! They might get fuel ! So we need to extend the system a bit, and have it read the VIN of the vehicle. Still got a problem though , cos we don't know if the licence the driver is presenting (see above) is actually his. What we need is for all drivers to , by law, have a microchip implanted in the foreheads. And special little helmets at the pumps that you put on, so it can read the micro chip.

    FFS. Have you people nothing better to do than whine and bitch about some unknown dude whose rego has lapsed. Get a life, the Warewhare will have them on special on Boxing Day.
    also, it would cross check if you have unpaid fines, and wont let you get gas until you pay your fine
    Then I could get a Kb Tshirt, move to Timaru and become a full time crossdressing faggot

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    What nonsense. Are you seriously claiming that someone who has neglected to renew their rego is thereby evidenced as a drunken disqualified driver driving an unroadworthy vehicle ? Would you care to extend it further and show that they are also paedophiles , dope smugglers and bite the heads off fluffy pink kittens?

    A lack of a rego label means either that the vehicle's owner has neglected to renew it (because they forgot; haven't had time; have renewed and the new label is in the post; can't afford it until pay day; whatever) ; or the vehicle is indeed registered but the new label is not displayed . Or maybe someone pinched the label (happened to me twice now).

    Much the same goes for WoF. It may mean that there is something about the vehicle that would fail a warrent . Which may, or may not, have a bearing on roadworthiness (pipes too loud doesn't affect road safety for instance. Ditto emission stuff). Or , it may equally well be that the vehicle is completely roadworthy and the owner just hasn't jumped through the necessary bureaucratic hoops.
    with rego/warrent, its "ok" for it to lapse for several days [ie, expires christmas day, but you cant get it done due to going away] but several YEARS without a current rego [i cant read wof stickers when on the fly, but stands to reason if one is out, so is the other] usually means theres something badly wrong with the car, owner cant afford to repair, so just doesnt get a wof cos they know the car would fail.

    delph... you make a good point about drunk drivers. i dont *think* ive encountered any... drunk passengers yes, but not any drunk drivers that i know of. id actually forgot about that side of things.
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  13. #43
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    Doesn't stand to reason that no rego means no WoF and vice versa. They don't necessarily coincide. And if someone has been driving around for several years displaying an expired WoF and rego, then it would seem that they must be pretty careful and law abiding drivers, since they have presumably not been stopped by the cops for anything in that time.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Are you seriously claiming that someone who has neglected to renew their rego is thereby evidenced as a drunken disqualified driver driving an unroadworthy vehicle ?
    Not at all, I was hoping my post wouldn't come across that way but it must have.

    What I meant to say is they are possibly more likely.... This is a discussion right? Is just an idea

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by cooneyr View Post
    a - wider roads = higher speeds (ever noticed how everybody unconsciously speeds up on passing lanes)
    Yep agree. Higher speeds on well designed roads are fine. They just get you to your destination faster.

    Quote Originally Posted by cooneyr View Post
    b - roundabouts only work where the traffic flows from all approached are relatively similar. If you have a highly tidal flows i.e. most traffic from one or two approaches roundabouts have very high delays compared to signals and they are not much safer - they just change the severity and type of crashes.
    Thats what I said... my comment was that roundabouts work to make fail-to-yield accidents less severe.

    Your comment about tidal flows is correct if you simply replace an existing intersection with a roundabout.

    But done properly, a busy intersection would utilise overpasses and underpasses to ensure only diverting or converging traffic ever need reach a yield point. The majority of tidal flow traffic would just pass through.

    Quote Originally Posted by cooneyr View Post
    The engineering side of things has been hammered to death over the past 15 years - there are very few proper black spots left, most are grey spots.
    I don't agree. We may have done work on blackspots. But for the most part, our roads are third world standard.

    Roads like State Highway 1/2 from Wellington to Kapiti are just a joke.

    They have been engineered to be safer by sticking in cheese cutters and dropping the speed limit. They actually should be rebuilt, with 3 lanes in each direction, separated by proper barriers.

    In all seriousness, Transit have underperformed, and should all be fired. We have a bloody census every 5 years, yet Transit bleat that they couldn't anticipate demand here or there.

    Fixing rust in a fucked old car is not engineering. Its bogging and painting, it won't fix the car.

    And thats how we fix New Zealands roads - with bog, paint and signs.
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