wtf?

[MSTRS:Me]

I do agree with the above post but sure a few days(or whatever) for the grieving family should be given

Would be good to see the thread brought back minus any "insensitive" posts as it was,IMO one of the more constructive threads on KB I've seen in some time.

FWIW, I agree, but that is not the way on KB. Remember "A time to reflect"? That was so full of learning opportunities but was pulled off the main forum with promises to re- instate it at a more appropriate time, but over a year later it remains inaccessible to the masses.
I can understand the angst that a family goes through at a time like this and if a "dissection" thread contains innuendo or untruths, then fair enough, it should be pulled.
We desperately need the opportunity to discuss such events, as long as the thread contains the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

[Ixion]

Ix - you know what is happening in litigation world at the moment.

If I was the private owner of this privately owned web site I would also take every step possible to minimize the risks of a slander case.

If you want to have something protected by the 'veil of incorporation' then we need to do the BRONZ site as we have discussed.

At the moment you are raising the Socialist flag on Wall Street.

You can't libel a dead person. Legal oddity (it'd be libel, slander is verbal)

The people who the message needs to reach won't belong to BRONZ.

[Big Dave]

We desperately need the opportunity to discuss such events, as long as the thread contains the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

And how likely is that when nobody even uses their real name?
That is what meatspace and a bar are for.

[Katman]

Given the immediacy of their grief, I'm happy to consider that an overriding priority for the moment.

Why? What better time to discuss something of such huge magnitude. Motorcyclists die every week - a lot of them through their own lack of personal responsibility. Do we throw a blanket over the entire site everytime time someone dies on their motorcycle simply because it makes us feel better?

Time for a wake up call.

[jrandom]

We desperately need the opportunity to discuss such events, as long as the thread contains the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

This is correct.

In cases such as this, the precise nature of the events needs to be carefully established. I'm sure that the gentlemen from the SCU will be collecting data and interviewing all relevant individuals in due course, at which point their findings in relation to Pat's fatal crash will be released.

Until that point, it's appropriate for us to remain silent on the subject. I think that, on the whole, keeping the discussion that was held earlier today from public view for the time being is the only sensible course open to the moderators.

[Trudes]

We'll have to get a new option set up when you register you're account, like the organ donar option on your driver's license.

If in the event of my death while riding you have permission to discuss it in any way you want - YES/NO

We desperately need the opportunity to discuss such events, as long as the thread contains the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

That's all I have to say about that...... and please people just spare a thought for friends and family of someone who may or may not have made a mistake and paid for it in the most expensive way.

[Ixion]

Is it possible that the thread might be reinstated after a suitable period of respect?

Nope. Won't happen. Never does. This isn't the first time, won't be the last.

I agree that it must be devastating for his family and that sensitivity and honouring of their wishes be followed, but will there be future discussion on this site regarding this tragedy and any lessons to be learned?
I have no idea how well known Pat was to the wider biking community but some people will deal with their grief/incomprehension/bewilderment/frustration by debating in this type of forum.

Nope. You're in the wrong place. Once the shock of "shit, that could have been me" has worn off, people will settle back into the comfortable certainty that it never will be them. So, what's to discuss. Bins are cool, they're inevitable, and insurance just buys you a new bike. Hey, and chicks dig scars don't they.

[Ixion]

This is correct.

In cases such as this, the precise nature of the events needs to be carefully established. I'm sure that the gentlemen from the SCU will be collecting data and interviewing all relevant individuals in due course, at which point their findings in relation to Pat's fatal crash will be released.

Until that point, it's appropriate for us to remain silent on the subject. I think that, on the whole, keeping the discussion that was held earlier today from public view for the time being is the only sensible course open to the moderators.

No, they're not. Where are the SCU reports on the bikes versus cop car crash ?

[Big Dave]

You can't libel a dead person. Legal oddity (it'd be libel, slander is verbal)

The people who the message needs to reach won't belong to BRONZ.

I stand corrected.

We could ask for a link from here maybe?

Imagine if we could get ACC or someone to host a forum.
Wouldn't that give the govt some 'feedback'!

[yungatart]

And how likely is that when nobody even uses their real name?
That is what meatspace and a bar are for.

The range of ages/experiences/backgrounds makes for realistic debate/discussion on this forum. Meatspace/bar are all very well but tend to be similar ages and outlooks, so the variety of viewpoints is not great enough nor does it reach any where near the numbers that this place does.

[Katman]

In the event of my demise through a motorcycle accident I would expect everyone to dissect that accident and learn from it whatever they can. To my family (PrincessBandit), you better be prepared to sit back and read some grief. The only positive that I could take out of my own demise through a motorcycle accident is the fact that others may learn valuable lessons via it.

[Ixion]

In fact, the specific particulars of the accident that precipitates the thread actually play very little part in such threads.

They are not about the particular crash. That is just the shock event that temporarily forces people out of their complacency of invulnerability and forces them, for a short time, to face the fact the they too could end up dead.

Examination of such threads (you can't of course, because they are all deleted) would show that almost all the discussion is of a general nature. Concerned with principles and attitudes not with the unfortunate deceased at all.

Which is also why the "we have to wait until we know every tiny detail of the crash" is also irrelevant. But it's *such* a good cop out though.

[Jantar]

In the event of my demise through a motorcycle accident I would expect everyone to dissect that accident and learn from it whatever they can. ....

I'm with Katman on this part. I would hope that if I ever come to serious grief on a motorcycle that it will be discussed, disected, analysed to the fullest extent. If such an analysis can help prevent someone else from a similar demise, then it is well worth it. As for family, stromfrau supports this view fully.

[Kickaha]

Always happens. By no means the first time.

The site ethos is resolutely opposed to anything that reminds people that crashing can kill you.

Non Gradus Anus Rodentum!, time and place thats what it's about

and causes lots of people to demand that the offending thread be closed down. They "don't want to have to see that sort of stuff".

So is that really what happened? or are you just pulling shit out or your arse like you normally do

None so blind as they who will not see.

That saying would also apply to your bitching and moaning about "the heaven born" are you as bitter and twisted in real life old man as you come across on here?

If the family asked it be removed, how about we respect that? This tradgedy only occured a couple of days ago.

cocks like Ixion don't seem to know the meaning of respect

[Big Dave]

The range of ages/experiences/backgrounds makes for realistic debate/discussion on this forum. Meatspace/bar are all very well but tend to be similar ages and outlooks, so the variety of viewpoints is not great enough nor does it reach any where near the numbers that this place does.

sure - not the point - expecting the 'whole truth' is unrealistic in an opinion forum populated by psudonyms.