wtf?

[Ixion]

Actually , I think we agree.

The thought process "I should ride {slower, more carefully, defensively whatever}" is, on it's own , of little value. It is an abstract concept. What is needed to make people take it on board is a tangible appreciation of consequences. " You should ride {etc etc} , because otherwise *this* is what may happen to you" .

But in either case, the discussion is necessary. Because, apart from the few people that will actually encounter, or be part of a fatal accident, it is only the discussion that makes the point about consequences. Without discussion it is just a "yeah yeah, terrible". I read in the paper that a thousand people have been killed in Rwanda. It doesn't really mean much to be, there's no connection with my life.

The over enthusiastic rider, whose skill levels are actually well below his own estimation, reads that a motorcyclist has been killed. "Yeah yeah, terrible. Glad that won't happen to me". It needs other people pointing out that it can happen to *them* to make him think "Shit, if XXX thinks it could happen to him, and he's a really good rider, then maybe it *could* happen to me, too".

And you make a valid point, that riding more safely is not necesarily synonomous with riding slower. SOmetimes faster is safer.

[Jimmy B]

OK I’ll share my philosophy. Firstly I am a road rider and have developed a set of strategies that I ride to in most any given situation. I ride daily and most weekends, probably clock an average of 250Kms per week with the odd longer trip thrown in. I ride a mix of urban and the usual biker weekend routes, I have been riding this way since I was 15. I had a 5 year break in my mid 30’s and I am now 40.

I am not a fast rider but I am an efficient rider, I ride my own pace and get along with those of a similar mindset. I avoid large group rides because they freak me out. If I can’t see it I slow down, I won’t do 120kph around 55’s (though I can) because I don’t know what’s around the corner. I ride a line that gives me the maximum chance of stopping and maximum visibility; I am slow in and steady out. I make my own decisions to overtake and never feel pressured by the guys I ride with to keep up by chancing an iffy manoeuvre; they’ll wait and works both ways. I listen to anyone and every one on all things related to bikes, that which makes sense; I adopt and practice until its second nature. I look after my bike because it’s important that it works as it’s designed to do.

Whoever reads this take what you will from it, it is far from exhaustive. I am convinced that it’s my attitude and not my aptitude kept me from harm. I don’t have the same freqeuncey of near misses or close calls that others seem to do. Long may it continue.

[Tank]

The over enthusiastic rider, whose skill levels are actually well below his own estimation, reads that a motorcyclist has been killed. "Yeah yeah, terrible. Glad that won't happen to me". It needs other people pointing out that it can happen to *them* to make him think "Shit, if XXX thinks it could happen to him, and he's a really good rider, then maybe it *could* happen to me, too".

The sad thing is that the vast majority of people that ride like that STILL wont think that it applies to them.

Look at so many of the other threads on this KB about the speeds and the manner that people ride - not everyone on here is a riding GOD, despite what so many of them think. Have they looked at any of the other "rider down" threads and made a change - Im guessing not. Ive been on rides and seen people on the Thursday evening ride go past - Jesus so many of them were riding like fuck-wits.

So Im of thought that - if they haven't learnt now - they never will. That's why there are so many people on this KB getting killed, and will continue to do so - how many by the end of the year do you think? 15? 20? People who ride like that wont change because of something they read here saying "oh- that could happen to me" - they are more likley to ride faster because of all the SH16 GP threads and the like.


Regardless - this was started because someone took exception to a thread that was removed (as I understand it) at the request of the family of the young man who died.

Anyone who cannot respect for that dosnt deserve respect themselves. This isn't about censorship, its about showing concern for the thoughts of his family.

[FROSTY:Me]

Katman I agree with your and speedies ideals.
I 100% agree that fatal accidents should be looked at to help others (including myself) ride safer
I though do feel that its all about timing.
We have discussed this before many times dude and if you genuinely want people to hear your message which BTW again i believe is a good one you need to alter your aproach a bit so they dont turn their ears off to ya

[Mikkel]

Regardless of what prompted this thread I think it raises a valid point about moderation.

I've frequented quite a lot of forums over the years and I have never seen any forum being moderated in the way that KB is. I'm not saying that it is wrong or that the mods are doing a bad job. But I have never seen anywhere where the following tools are being used so often and so freely:

1) Renaming threads
2) Moving threads
3) Deleting threads

1) Renaming threads is bullshit - What's the next thing going to be? Correcting spelling and grammatical errors, infractions for having the wrong opinion?
People post what they post and it is honestly nobodys business changing what and how they express this. And if it is deemed vital to moderate what members have posted, common decency dictates an "EDIT" note at the end with name, time, date and reason for moderation by the moderator.

2) While I don't mind threads being moved, most other forums have a policy of taking all the posts and moving them to the desired forum while leaving the (now locked) thread in place with a notice of it being moved and a link. The locking and sticky tools are great ways of making threads disappear into oblivion or shoving them right in peoples faces!

3) Deleting threads is quite unacceptable IMHO. It stinks of sweeping stuff under the carpet and I'm pretty sure others have the same opinion. As for the time, place and respect argument - if absolutely necessary to keep something out of the public focus for a while I suggest MOVING the thread to a "members-only" forum a la PD which can only be seen by members who are logged in. As such it would no longer be available to the public and if it still disturbs some people they have had to go out of their way to find it and thus the argument is void.
Also, if a thread is deemed to be getting out of hand - just lock it down and it'll be outta sight in less than a day.

...peace

[Hitcher]

...peace

I think I posted something earlier in this thread about a discussion's ability to stay on topic.

While it is possible to respond to the assertions made in Mikkel's post, this is not the right thread/forum

Maybe I should rename and move it...

[Mikkel]

I think I posted something earlier in this thread about a discussion's ability to stay on topic.

And I'm sure D had a very insightful reply to that post.

While it is possible to respond to the assertions made in Mikkel's post, this is not the right thread/forum

While it would be possible to respond to any assertion - I'm pretty sure you won't find any in my post. I'm merely stating facts and my personal opinions and I think that either would be hard to argue against.

Consider it an addressation of the issue at the core of this thread and a few humble suggestions as how to moderate "professionally and respectfully".

Maybe I should rename and move it...

...*shrug*...

Edit: I can see that Motogirl's post has disappeared somehow...
Is it actually possible for users to delete their own threads?

[Hitcher]

Is it actually possible for users to delete their own threads?

Users can delete posts, but not threads.

[rainman]

The thought process "I should ride {slower, more carefully, defensively whatever}" is, on it's own , of little value. It is an abstract concept. What is needed to make people take it on board is a tangible appreciation of consequences. " You should ride {etc etc} , because otherwise *this* is what may happen to you" .

So true. I ride slowly and defensively for a number of reasons:

1. my bike is a cruiser not a rocketship
2. I don't have the necessary skills or self-control to pilot a modern sportsbike at high speed without likely injury
3. I remember how much it hurts to fall off, even though the last time I did I was half my age
4. I like being around for my family and they seem to enjoy that too

The most important of these factors is #3, the sensory memory of historical bins. Yes, this is a species of fear, and no, my masculinity and I don't have a problem with being scared of hurting myself.

And you make a valid point, that riding more safely is not necesarily synonomous with riding slower. SOmetimes faster is safer.

Oddly enough I agree. Besides, every day I get on the bike even I ride fast enough to kill myself. It's easier than I think, I think.

And FWIW, should I ever meet my end while riding, I'd welcome a detailed discussion anywhere it might help others learn from the situation.