The difficulty is enforcement.

[ManDownUnder]

Sorry but talking on the phone is worse than a blood alcohol level of .08.

I heard that too. Accident rates etc go right up

There is an ever increasing body of work to suggest that passengers shouldn't talk to the driver, there shouldn't be music or radio in a car and GPS needs to be ditched as well. Communication uses areas of the brain that are required for attentive driving.

I (can't find it now) but saw/read/heard an interesting dialogue on cell phone talking vs that by passengers.

The long and short of it is this (from memory)
1) Conversation is engaging - distrating... so someone talking and expecting your involvement in the conversation will distract you
2) Passengers in a car talk "situationally" i.e. if something happens that will affect the way you drive (topless woman crossing the street, car swerving in front of you, red light runner approaching) they most often share in that experience... and (crucially) stop talking... and allow you to focus/stop diverting your attention from the threat presenting itself.
3) People on the other end of a cell phone do not get involved in the situation presenting itself (how could they?) and keep blathering on. Human nature is such that attention is then divided between the two immediate demands for attention resulting in incomplete copnversations - and compromised driving.

Lo - chatting on the cell phone is more dangerous.

I've seen no numbers or stats to back that particular assertion but on the face of it - it makes sense to me.

[scumdog]

No, no it's not. Out of the 2000 active members here do all of them bitch and moan and accuse police officers of issuing incorrect speeding tickets? I'll answer that for you. No they don't. But I suppose years of being a police officer make you so cynical and paranoid you think everyone hates you.

See post #26

And yeah, maybe they're not KBers but shitloads argue that they were NOT going that fast, that they WERE wearing their seetbelt, that they NEVER cross the centre-line etc. etc.

One of the first things a crusty old sgt told me was "They lie people, they all lie" - and while it's not 100% true he wasn not wrong.

And already I've caught people txting while driving throught town, left hand on the steering wheel, right hand below it out of sight (so they don't get 'caught')- and so were their eyes!!

Nose-to-tail city Arizona.

[jonbuoy]

Wouldn't it be careless driving? Same as if you were carrying out any distracting activity, if a cop sees you - or better has you on an in car camera - (why don't they all have them? - technology is cheap as chips these days) weaving all over the road texting or on a phone isn't that enough? Same as "sustained loss of traction".

[James Deuce]

I saw a nice test done on a bunch US high school kids, and I have to find the link, but basically everyone driving should be capable of reaction times under a second. Talking on a cellphone pushed that into the 1-2 second range and texting the 3-4 second range. They demolished hazards they'd seen and avoided easily without distraction.

Bit of a small sample range.

[onearmedbandit]

Of course people try to talk their way out of tickets/trouble, human nature. Last two tickets I got (both in cages as well I might add) they were both fair cops (no pun intended), I was over the limit and got done. Sure they could've turned a blind eye (one in fact reduced the speed on the ticket), but I was in the wrong anyway. Most people I know will admit that that is the case. It is afterall, your foot (or hand) on the throttle.

[Ixion]

I (can't find it now) but saw/read/heard an interesting dialogue on cell phone talking vs that by passengers.

The long and short of it is this (from memory)
1) Conversation is engaging - distrating... so someone talking and expecting your involvement in the conversation will distract you
2) Passengers in a car talk "situationally" i.e. if something happens that will affect the way you drive (topless woman crossing the street, car swerving in front of you, red light runner approaching) they most often share in that experience... and (crucially) stop talking... and allow you to focus/stop diverting your attention from the threat presenting itself.
3) People on the other end of a cell phone do not get involved in the situation presenting itself (how could they?) and keep blathering on. Human nature is such that attention is then divided between the two immediate demands for attention resulting in incomplete copnversations - and compromised driving.

Lo - chatting on the cell phone is more dangerous.

I've seen no numbers or stats to back that particular assertion but on the face of it - it makes sense to me.

I disagree.

Firstly , that asusmes that attention is only required in 'crisis' situations. Careful driving requires stituational awareness at all times

Secondly, a pasenger is likely as not , not a driver her/him self (cos that's why she/he is a passenger!). So will only observe the most gross developments.

Thirdly it assumes that the passnger is paying close attention to the road. 99% of the time , I very much doubt the passenger would even be looking at the road (see fourthly)

Fourthly, the human passenger is more dangerous in conversation, because it is human nature to look toward the person you are talking to. Hand free (and to a more limited extent, hand held) conversations do not do this.

Fifthly. One is MUCH more likely to pause , or even drop a phone, if something needs assesment, than to break of a viva voce conversation.

Conversation in a vehicle IS distracting. Which is why if I'm driving YOU DO NOT TALK. End of story. All my passengers know this, or are told it. I not not chatter while driving (Don't have radios or stereos going either).

But distracting as phone conversations are , they are no MORE distracting than other things - viva voce conversation, loud stereos, looking for a road sign (GPS is no more - or less- distracting than peering out looking for road signs).

Reality is, that driving like everything else is not a perfect thing. It's an imperfect world.

Txting I think is much worse. And the really bad thing about cellphones used for talking is not the talking, its the fumbling around dialing the number. And the holding the phone.

I can't see any rationale in saying that a handsfree phone is any worse than most other distractions. In an ideal worlld, there would be none of them. Reality intervenes.

[Swoop]

Why do people turn down the radio when looking for a street address?
Removing a distraction to concentration?

[Ixion]

Yep. Why I never have radio going. But if cell phones are to benaned then so should be radios, stereos, passengers (and bloody babies especially ).

[scumdog]

I disagree.

Thirdly it assumes that the passnger is paying close attention to the road. 99% of the time , I very much doubt the passenger would even be looking at the road (see fourthly)

Fourthly, the human passenger is more dangerous in conversation, because it is human nature to look toward the person you are talking to. Hand free (and to a more limited extent, hand held) conversations do not do this.

Fifthly. One is MUCH more likely to pause , or even drop a phone, if something needs assesment, than to break of a viva voce conversation.


But distracting as phone conversations are , they are no MORE distracting than other things - viva voce conversation, loud stereos, looking for a road sign (GPS is no more - or less- distracting than peering out looking for road signs).


Txting I think is much worse. And the really bad thing about cellphones used for talking is not the talking, its the fumbling around dialing the number. And the holding the phone.

I can't see any rationale in saying that a handsfree phone is any worse than most other distractions. In an ideal worlld, there would be none of them. Reality intervenes.

Mainly codswallop old bean, however when in a tight situation a driver tends to drop voice communication as one of the first responses.
At those times a passenger realises why the chatter has stopped whereas the person on the other end of the phone screeches/drones on : "are ya there, can ya hear me, hullo...hullo...are ya there?".

AND TXTING IS MORE WORSERER! After all, not only does one have to read but one has to also decypher txtspeak!!
And in the real world are often sent by slack-jawed illiterates to other slack-jawed illiterates about inconsequential clap-trap that garnishes their sorry shallow lives..

[Gremlin]

so why trust them to police anything else, surely its just an opportunity to gather more revenue.

you forget that the general public only started to dislike the police after they changed the way they enforced the laws. The trust in the police disappeared after the police tried trapping people with hidden equipment, and trying to catch people out. It was made worse when the police (to the public at least) put far more priority into catching people doing 1-2k over the limit, instead of burglaries etc. It does not matter what reality is, that was the perception to the public.

Anyway, thats a whole other issue. I think the easy way to begin, (and I have seen plenty of it) is drivers unable to stay in their lane, travelling in the fast lane at 80 with a queue of drivers behind them, etc. I do plenty of kilometres a year, and when you see something like that, 99% of the time, people are on the mobile, or texting.

The law has to exist, and then it should be the discretion of the cop to enforce which laws, if he deems there was a risk.

[Headbanger]

See post #26
"They lie people, they all lie"

Nice.

Considering you can assume I'm a liar I can assume the same as you, Once again respect hits zero.

[ManDownUnder]

???????????

Firstly , that asusmes that attention is only required in 'crisis' situations. Careful driving requires stituational awareness at all times

You're saying you are 100% on deck all the time while you're driving????

Empty long roads still mean no radio, conversation, or any other 3rd person input at all? Not even on the way to work?

Complete disagreement - the amount of focus needed while driving is highly situational. And there are times when you're going to place total and sole focus on a task at the expense of everything else. If you're on the bike, totally crossed up, passing under the wing of a 747 that chose to land on the road you're using... you wouldn't notice a herd of fucking elephants stampeding along behind the plane until you were safe from the most immediate threat.

An extreme example sure - but it applies - it's all just a matter of scale.

Secondly, a pasenger is likely as not , not a driver her/him self (cos that's why she/he is a passenger!). So will only observe the most gross developments.

My 8 year old is actively aware of what's going on around us in the car and gleefully points out faults in others driving. Sure he's a bright boy but he's far from a licensed driver and I'm sure he has no time behind the wheel.

Me thinks you're play the point down... a lot.

Thirdly it assumes that the passnger is paying close attention to the road. 99% of the time , I very much doubt the passenger would even be looking at the road (see fourthly)

No - it assumes the passenger is paying attention to the driver, and reacting in sympathy to them. If a driver stops talking and gives a worried glance to the left I'd put ten bucks on the fact a passenger will too.

Fourthly, the human passenger is more dangerous in conversation, because it is human nature to look toward the person you are talking to. Hand free (and to a more limited extent, hand held) conversations do not do this.

Agree to disagree on that one. Someone blathering away on a phone is more difficult to ignore for me. I have no problem is listening to people in the car while still paying attention to what I'm driving and where I'm going.

Fifthly. One is MUCH more likely to pause , or even drop a phone, if something needs assesment, than to break of a viva voce conversation.

How do you "break" a live voice conversation? Do you mean "stop talking"? That happens spontaneously, in a heartbeat for me. Something needs my attention which means I delay a (or even give no) response then it just happens.

That's a simply prioritisation of demands... everyone does that - from birth onwards.

Conversation in a vehicle IS distracting. Which is why if I'm driving YOU DO NOT TALK. End of story. All my passengers know this, or are told it. I not not chatter while driving (Don't have radios or stereos going either).

Making you very much the exception in that respect which probably explains your points of view.

I can't see any rationale in saying that a handsfree phone is any worse than most other distractions. In an ideal worlld, there would be none of them. Reality intervenes.

Hands free is worse for the very reason you stated above... you can chuck the phone away if you need to. Disconnecting a hands free chat requires action... harder to do - impossible to do instantly or by reaction.

Fifthly. One is MUCH more likely to pause , or even drop a phone, if something needs assesment, than to break of a viva voce conversation.

[scumdog]

Nice.

Considering you can assume I'm a liar I can assume the same as you, Once again respect hits zero.

"If the cap fits you may wear it"
I was talking about crims and those pulled over for driving offences, NOT 'everybody' out there in the world - or was I too obtuse for you?

But it's true - all criminals and a lot of motorists do lie - it's just like they've never left school and are trying to come up with a crappy excuse/a lie for what they've been apprehended for.

Normally preceded by "I was just....."
(The kiss of death for a lot of them)

[Usarka]

The productivity in NZ is abismal as it is. In Auckland especially, many workers spend hours per day stuck in traffic. at least by using the phone they can get some work done.......

[Ixion]

???????????

You're saying you are 100% on deck all the time while you're driving????

Empty long roads still mean no radio, conversation, or any other 3rd person input at all? Not even on the way to work?

Yep. No radios or stereos. No nattering. If I MUST take you as a passenger, sit still, and shut up. If possible, try not to breath. And don't wiggle. (That's in a cage. I virtually never take passengers on the bike)

Especially on the way to work! It's hell out there.

I won't say I'm on deck 100% of the time. I may f'instance be distracted by trying to find an address. But in that case I will be very aware I'm not 'on deck'. And slow down, pull far to left, be hyper alert.

I hate all distractions. Drivings a job of work, deserves full and total concentration. But I can't see cell phones (don't do the cell phone thing myself, but) as any worse than anything else.Sprogs in my opinion are the worst. Someone with a sprog in the car is NEVER paying proper attention, they're always distracted.


I 8have* been known to sing to myself. Which certainly ought to be banned as a public menace.