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Thread: If you ever start thinking you're safe...

  1. #1
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    If you ever start thinking you're safe...

    Before I got my licence, and my bike, I asked about riding with those close to me who've gone down the two wheel road.

    Words of advice from my brother:
    "If you ever start thinking that your safe...Give it away."

    Words of advice from my cousin:
    "250's have two throttle settings, on and off."


    There's always these two competing theme's that riders seem to be trying to find a balance between; how to ride safer, and how to ride quicker. Not that they are necessarily mutually exclusive in the skills required. Still there's the attitude beneath it of trying to get the most out of your bike while not dying in the process.

    Having stumbled on this site trying to find an answer to a mechanical absurdity (success too, thanks again RonR), I glanced through some of the other threads and was shocked (rather naively) at how many mentioned people who aren't with us any more. It was unsettling. From my experience as a psychologist the only other group with that kind of communal malady is gay men with AIDS.

    When talking to riders there was always at least a story of a frightening near miss. Still, here I am, and I don't think I'm scared enough. Sure I was shitting myself riding my newly purchased bike home. Thanking the, err, "biker gods", that I couldn't get it until late at night when there was no traffic. But the fear is ebbing away; going down in stages as I learn new things. I'm truly thankful for driving first, while thinking that, being such a physical skill, starting so late means I'm only ever going to be so good.

    Having said that, I'm okay with only being so good. I think that could be what is going to keep me alive, so long as I can hold on to some of that fear I had when I first rode home. Riding around the Dandenongs (mountain range just outside Melbourne) I was surprised at how often I was overtaken by other riders while I never ducked beneath the speed limit. I was usually focusing on judging the next corner - and looking out for loose gravel and inconsistencies - when suddenly I'd here an excitingly loud rhythm close behind me. By the time I'd registered that it was a another bike, it had ducked around me and shot off into the distance in a rising pitch. Sure, these guys obviously had more skill, but I couldn't help wonder how much more likely they were to die as well. Same with the guys weaving through traffic. I just get a sense that these guys, even if they have binned, have a belief that it's not going to happen to them.

    Unrealistic optimism is common amongst us hapless humans (except for the anxious and depressed who are closer to the truth in their estimations of risk). Most of us think we are above average drivers and riders (much more than just the 50% who are). Just like most of us think that we are less likely than others to die of cancer or be involved in an accident.

    Do you think you're a below average rider? Do you think that you're less safe than average? For the learners I hope most of you will still acknowledge being less than average, but I bet you think you're an above average learner. Ba Bow. Wrong, thanks for playing. At least for some of you anyway. How do you know its not you? For the more experienced riders I'm sure many would have agreed with the sentiment and still thought "no" to both. Some of you are wrong. None of you thinks its you. Just a thought.

    If you're new to this whole riding adventure, or have started to take it for granted, I think that's the one thing you need to remember; our stats aren't good. It's not just idiots who die. Intelligent, talented people who push their limits die too. As do random cautious riders. It might not have been their fault but they're still dead.

    People probably (hopefully) post this sort of stuff often. Sorry if it's boring. This is just in case someone has forgotten. I'm worried I'll forget, it's happening already in fact. Every time I ride I take it more for granted. I don't want to have to have a spill to remind me. I don't want to have other riders remind me through their mishaps either. People are more fun alive.

    Fear is good, but it can dissipate via habituation. Everyone's fear goes down when they experience something and nothing bad happens - the same theory is used to treat phobias. That's unfortunate for us as random stuff happens. I've swung wide on a corner once and have pretty much dismissed it as a one off. Could have been a deadly one off though.

    One thing that keeps fear going in phobias is a sense of "phew, thank god I made it" that follows the removal of the feared stimulus. I think that's what we should tell ourselves when we get off our bikes.

    Anyway, good luck not having any exciting stories everyone. The fear might keep you alive, hang on to some of it as best as you can.

  2. #2
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    21st December 2006 - 14:36
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    Nice write up.

    I'd like to add my two cents worth and suggest that what's actually needed is respect, not fear. Fear makes you tense and more likely to over-correct if something goes wrong. Indeed it makes it more likely that something will go wrong in the first place. Treat your bike and the road the same as you would a domesticated lion. If they smell fear you're dead.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  3. #3
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    Fear is not good. If you are fearful then that is when you can become overly cautious, which can lead to trouble.

    Respect is healthy. For your bike. For the conditions around you. Every other road user, and most importantly respect for yourself.


    2c

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner Zealot View Post
    Do you think you're a below average rider?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Learner Zealot View Post
    Do you think that you're less safe than average?
    No,

    Agree with the other poster who said respect is key, but it's also about having a realistic assessment of consequences. If you have thought through all the hazards you can see and have a plan for each (and it's not just the testosterone saying "she'll be right, never happen to me"), well, things can still go wrong. But they'll be the less likely things.
    Redefining slow since 2006...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner Zealot View Post
    I'm an Aussie, and you should do what I say.
    Burn him!
    kiwibiker is full of love, an disrespect.
    - mikey

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Learner Zealot View Post
    Same with the guys weaving through traffic. I just get a sense that these guys, even if they have binned, have a belief that it's not going to happen to them.
    Most riders think that binning is inevetable ineverta bound to happen at some time cuz.

    if it's going to happen why be sacared of it?

    Note: author does not necessarily agree with views posted. Terms and conditions apply. Batteries sold separately.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainman View Post
    If you have thought through all the hazards you can see and have a plan for each (and it's not just the testosterone saying "she'll be right, never happen to me"), well, things can still go wrong. But they'll be the less likely things.
    Indeed, as in all aspects of life. Basic risk management and hazard identification skills are all that is needed, and all too often lacking.

    I've been thinking, what makes a good rider? There are two ways to look at this. You could say a good rider is one who can get from A to B in the shortest possible time. Or you could say a good rider is one who is ready for anything (or at least most) that the road can throw at them. The former makes for a good track rider, someone that could give Mr Rossi a run for his money, while the latter will still be alive and in one piece into their old age (although the former may be also if they've an angel on their shoulder). Both are equally valid when taken in the appropriate context.

    A truly great rider, of course, is a combination of the two. If you find yourself in a group ride unable to keep up with the testosterone fuelled rockets ask yourself this question: Are you a complete nana that needs to get some balls or are you just learning to become a truly great rider by maybe taking that blind hairpin a tad slower so you're ready for that cow pat right on your exit line?
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin (1706-90)

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

    "Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

    "Live to Ride, Ride to Live"

  8. #8
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    Good thoughts Zealot, well crafted.It's hard to quantify how I see myself as a rider. I really don't know and am not busting a foofoo to find out.

    I regard myself as a cautious rider, someone who prefers to sit in traffic than split if it is moving at more than 10k. I also run with full beam and approaching busy cross roads will move about in the lane to make myself more visible to waiting cars.

    However ....... ! I've fallen twice, given myself a few sweaty moments and I LOVE the perfect corner. The feeling of G forces, of the beautifully executed curve, hanging off the bike with the vegetation on the inside of the corner just tickling your shoulder and the perfect line are all things to perfect and savour. They don't actually have to be done at great speed or risk but they are part of what I think attracts us all to life on two wheels. And therein lies the risks.

    Picking the time and place is part of the survival strategy and I think that maybe the place is a track day. Get someone to take a stopwatch. In that environment then I experimnt and enjoy all of those sensations. I get them doing Paekak Hill Rd too but there is no way to control centreline-crossing vehicles there so the risks are heightened to the point where experimenting is on left hand corners only

  9. #9
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    +1 to the other posters who mention 'respect'...
    If you are truly fearful of being on a bike, then don't ride...it will kill you. And being a cage driver first is NOT good training for becoming a biker.
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSTRS View Post
    If you are truly fearful of being on a bike, then don't ride...it will kill you. And being a cage driver first is NOT good training for becoming a biker.
    I disagree - I think it's a good stepping stone. Learning road rules, how traffic works, basic clutch management, etc, in a safer environment. I think having a class 1 should be a prerequisit (SP?) for getting a 6L.

  11. #11
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    You notice and hear about a lot more injuries and fatalities with bikers right and it scares you. Yet the other day when we all heard about the fatal crash with the biker and the truck, on that same day a father and daughter died in a car that crashed into a tractor!

    Yes motorbikes are dangerous and we should be very careful etc, but there are so many car crashes even fatal ones each week now that they are barely mentioned in the news or anything! Yet I'm sure most if not all cage drivers do not feel any fear when they step into their car.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbarnett View Post
    Are you a complete nana
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by swbarnett View Post
    that needs to get some balls
    No

    I like these yes/no questions....!
    Redefining slow since 2006...

  13. #13
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    Fear, respect, either or a bit of both! Who cares what you call it. I think the intention of the article is there. We don't want to do the typical KB thing and muddy the real meaning of a well written piece, by picking apart the terminology.

    Good read Learner Zealot a timely reminder we all need from time to time.
    On a Motorcycle you're penetrating distance, right along with the machine!! In a car you're just a spectator, the windshields like a TV!!

    'Life's Journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out! Shouting, ' Holy sh!t... What a Ride!! '

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soul.Trader View Post
    I disagree - I think it's a good stepping stone. Learning road rules, how traffic works, basic clutch management, etc, in a safer environment. I think having a class 1 should be a prerequisit (SP?) for getting a 6L.

    I strongly disagree.

    Over the course of half a cenntury, I've seen many riders come and go.

    Some were cage drivers who took up motorcycling. Some the reverse.

    There are aolways exceptions, but , by a massive margin, I would say the best riders AND drivers are those who start off on bikes, or bikes and cars at the same time . Those with experience driving cars who come later to bikes always have a lot of cager habits that need to be unlearned if they are to be safe riders . They don't always realise this of course, and often don't admit it.

    Road rules, traffic sense, are good but don't outweigh the fact that a rider needs a totally different outlook to a cager . A bike is NOT a two wheeled car.

    The best pre-training of all for a motorbike is a push bike.

    And after 50 years I still fear motorcycles. They can hurt you, kill you. Only a fool would not fear them. But then I fear many things. Car, electricity, slippery floors, wobbly ladders. They can hurt or kill you too.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  15. #15
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    Damn right Ixion...

    If anyone heard about the guy that got killed at Rainbows End the other week by being caught in the Ferris Wheel between the frame and a compartment whilst cleaning it before opening, well he was a mate of mine. The accident was so crazy it may have been a horror movie, but yeah it happened. There are only so many things in life you can truly fear and be cautious about. Anything can happen at anytime, we can only do our best as individuals in our own thing (such as when riding). Nothing can be done about that drunk driver, that truck whose brakes fail, the list goes on.

    Each of us can only prevent so much in terms of being aware and improving riding skills, but in the real world, shit happens huh, like Ferris Wheels...

    RIP Mikey (20yr old with his full life ahead of him including possibly making the black caps....shit happens )

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