Nearly busted for flashing

[Delerium]

Well of course speed kills, if you didnt have any speed you wouldnt be moving and then there would be no accidents. Hmmm, maybe I should pass that idea on to the govt, speed limit is 0, no more road deaths!

[swbarnett]

Well of course speed kills, if you didnt have any speed you wouldnt be moving and then there would be no accidents. Hmmm, maybe I should pass that idea on to the govt, speed limit is 0, no more road deaths!

Given that an accident occurs in the first place then, yes, speed is a factor. What I, and others, dispute is the claimed statistical correlation between speed alone and accidents. Our contention is that riding to the conditions, above or below the speed limit is what's important, not the actual speed.

And to be pedantic it's not the speed that's the issue, it the negative acceleration (that's why an explosion will kill you, you're accelerating too fast).

[scumdog]

Given that an accident occurs in the first place then, yes, speed is a factor. What I, and others, dispute is the claimed statistical correlation between speed alone and accidents. Our contention is that riding to the conditions, above or below the speed limit is what's important, not the actual speed.

And to be pedantic it's not the speed that's the issue, it the negative acceleration (that's why an explosion will kill you, you're accelerating too fast).

Ride to WHOSE perception of the conditions???

[swbarnett]

Ride to WHOSE perception of the conditions???

In the first instance the rider's obviously.

You're right though, people won't always get it right. This is were the police come in. If they see someone who is not riding to the condition as they see them then they have the right to pull them over and have a chat, maybe issue a ticket if they won't listen.

Even then the cop may not always be right but I'd be much happier to have a cop telling me "you're riding like a dick and this is why" than have one say "you're riding past the posted limit". Ticket or no I can then take on board what was said and maybe learn something.

[McDuck]

Ride to WHOSE perception of the conditions???

The riders abbility...

[scumdog]

In the first instance the rider's obviously.

You're right though, people won't always get it right. This is were the police come in. If they see someone who is not riding to the condition as they see them then they have the right to pull them over and have a chat, maybe issue a ticket if they won't listen.

Even then the cop may not always be right but I'd be much happier to have a cop telling me "you're riding like a dick and this is why" than have one say "you're riding past the posted limit". Ticket or no I can then take on board what was said and maybe learn something.

True.

But KB is already full of people screaming "defend it, you'l clutter the Courts and piss 'em off' - and that's with offences easily proved compared with your scenario of cops doing people for 'not driving to the conditions' instead of speeding tickets.

And anecdotal evidence points to people (a) being pissed off by getting pulled over and told to 'adjust' their driving style and (b) warnings last as long as the cop is still within view.

[swbarnett]

True.

But KB is already full of people screaming "defend it, you'l clutter the Courts and piss 'em off' - and that's with offences easily proved compared with your scenario of cops doing people for 'not driving to the conditions' instead of speeding tickets.

And anecdotal evidence points to people (a) being pissed off by getting pulled over and told to 'adjust' their driving style and (b) warnings last as long as the cop is still within view.

It seems we do agree on some things. Of course I'm talking about the ideal and you're talking about practicality so the truth of the matter is probably somewhere in the middle.

I suppose that it's really a comment on the society that we live in that warnings are usually ignored. What annoys me is the assumption that everybody is a dick head until proven otherwise. However, I can understand where this feeling comes from.

I seem to be in the minority. I've been stopped once or twice and told to 'adjust', took on board what was said and sat on the side of the road for a minute or two and thought "shit, they're right, lesson learnt".

[spudchucka]

Given that an accident occurs in the first place then, yes, speed is a factor. What I, and others, dispute is the claimed statistical correlation between speed alone and accidents. Our contention is that riding to the conditions, above or below the speed limit is what's important, not the actual speed.

And to be pedantic it's not the speed that's the issue, it the negative acceleration (that's why an explosion will kill you, you're accelerating too fast).

I think you and many others are taking the speed as a causative factor in crashes a bit too literally.

The real issue as to why speed limits are heavily enforced is because speed in crashes is directly linked to personal trauma and death.

The cause of the crash may be debated till the cows come home, (although there is usually very good evidence that does link inappropriate speed as a direct cause).

The cause of the death or trauma suffered in a crash however is not so easily questioned because human bodies are soft and metal isn't.

More speed equals more trauma when you crash. This is why police target speeders, any other reasons that are publicly discussed are totally secondary, (speed causes crashes) or irrelevant, (revenue collection).

[Swoop]

What's that word again, begins with 'H', on the tip of my tongue - hippopotamus ? No that's not it.

Hypochondriac?
No. Getting closer though.

[Ixion]

Heterodyne. That's it.

[more_fasterer]

The real issue as to why speed limits are heavily enforced is because speed in crashes is directly linked to personal trauma and death.

I can understand where you're coming from as someone who gets the joy of dealing with the unsavoury side of the driving public daily, but speed is not the only causal factor that's directly linked to personal trauma and death.

For one example, take red light runners, or drivers who fail to give way. Travelling into the path of crossing traffic (or, more specifically, travelling into the crossing traffic) is directly linked to personal trauma & death.

It's been a long, long time since I've seen any police officers enforcing these rules, unlike the speed enforcement regime.

[McDuck]

I can understand where you're coming from as someone who gets the joy of dealing with the unsavoury side of the driving public daily, but speed is not the only causal factor that's directly linked to personal trauma and death.

For one example, take red light runners, or drivers who fail to give way. Travelling into the path of crossing traffic (or, more specifically, travelling into the crossing traffic) is directly linked to personal trauma & death.

It's been a long, long time since I've seen any police officers enforcing these rules, unlike the speed enforcement regime.

A while ago i got pulled over by a cop after STOPING at a stop sign. I said to him 'i stoped at that stop sign'
and he said:
'I know, you were the only person in the last two hours'


Proves a point tho.

[swbarnett]

A while ago i got pulled over by a cop after STOPING at a stop sign. I said to him 'i stoped at that stop sign'
and he said:
'I know, you were the only person in the last two hours'


Proves a point tho.

So why did he pull you over?

[McDuck]

So why did he pull you over?

I am guessing to inform me that i had done the right thing.
That or i was about 16 at the time...

[spudchucka]

I can understand where you're coming from as someone who gets the joy of dealing with the unsavoury side of the driving public daily, but speed is not the only causal factor that's directly linked to personal trauma and death.

For one example, take red light runners, or drivers who fail to give way. Travelling into the path of crossing traffic (or, more specifically, travelling into the crossing traffic) is directly linked to personal trauma & death.

It's been a long, long time since I've seen any police officers enforcing these rules, unlike the speed enforcement regime.

You can't run a red light if you are stationary.