KB = Mourning

[Ixion]

I don't have the sources, but I have seen data that suggests that younger riders are more likely to crash and/or be injured. But older riders, crash less often , but when they do it's more likely to be fatal.

Which sort of makes sense I think. Novices (and born agains) often have minor (though perhaps still painful) crashes. Often that puts them off , and they move on away from bikes.

Those who perservere soon learn survival skills that enable them to avoid the typical "overshot the bend and ended up in the ditch" or "collected by car that didn't give way" crashes. But when they do get caught out it's likely to be nasty.

One must be very careful about such figures though. firstly to check that they actually relate to NZ - data from other countries, with different licence rules, helmet laws etc may not be at all applicable. And careful that it is as up to date as possible. The demography of motorcycling is changing quite fast.

10 years ago for instance, it was almost certain that older riders would be the most represented in crash statistics. Simply because there were bugger all young ones taking up riding. Now, we have a LOT more young people coming in, it's getting more like the 70s. So that will change things. Often even if the statistics are dated recently, the underlying data is several years old. It takes time to collect collate and anaylyse it.

[Mikkel]

It is very interesting to read what you (with all due respect ) oldtimers think of the matter. You all seem to have lost mates to motorcycling one way or the other. I wonder how many of these people you would have gotten to know if you never had gotten into motorcycling in the first place?

Anyway, I'm just a youngish fella who finally got his act together and got into something I've wanted to do, but put off for various reasons, since I was 18 years old.
Having been riding for almost 6 months now I have made several mistakes (only one painful) and, I hope, learned from them - only time will tell.

The number of Biker down/RIP threads I have seen here on KB in that short time is sobering. The memories of fallen mates permeates this website. It makes you think, a lot actually. Even if you didn't know the people, their legacy can still influence you. That is a good thing about KB in my humble opinion!

I chose to take up motorcycling for purely selfish reasons and have the good fortune to have a partner that accept and support my interests in that regard (motorcycles, not being selfish mind you). I have a family that are very well aware of the potential consequences, but trust my judgment enough to not worry too much about what I might get myself into.

I know that the loss would shatter these peoples lives should I die at a young age - no matter the reason. I don't hold any beliefs in afterlife or anything like it, when it's over it's over and that's the end of the story. Still, I actively choose to engage in an activity that is potentially, and more so than many others, fatal - knowing and accepting the inherent risks. It's my choice every time I get on the bike - I accept that responsibility and hope that I won't let anyone down handling that responsibility!

I am absolutely certain the ones that care for me would want it no other way!

[90s]

I don't have the sources ... One must be very careful about such figures though. firstly to check that they actually relate to NZ - data from other countries, with different licence rules, helmet laws etc may not be at all applicable. And careful that it is as up to date as possible. The demography of motorcycling is changing quite fast.

The data I posted on is current to 2006, New Zealand from the ministry of transport. This is very interesting, particularly the accident data 1980-2006.
http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...et-July-07.pdf

[Unit:Me]

The data I posted on is current to 2006, New Zealand from the ministry of transport. This is very interesting, particularly the accident data 1980-2006.
http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/...et-July-07.pdf

Wow, Im glad we arent back in the 80's, seems to have been a great improvement since then

[motobob]

Interesting Thread you started Brett :-) It was a shock to arrive and hear that Derek Hill and Phil Harrison had that fatal collision.

You have some pertinent insights. One thing as a biker is we forget of the impact on our families and friends when we make those serious mistakes. Having screwed up and made one of those mistakes I have put real pressure on the ones I love. This one of the hardest things I have to live with.

The funny thing is that when I look back in hindsight, I can see that I was destined to crash badly. The opportunities to change th outcome were presented to me, but were ignored because I did not realise what was going to happen. Hope that makes sense :-)

Biking is a high risk sport and attracts risk takers, even if we don't think its risky. Hence the heavy toll. You can reduce the risk by going and playing bridge or lawn bowls. However the oldies playing those games are dying or suffering from serious medical problems too.

Anyways time to go, only popped on to check how Skelstar was getting on.

[Grahameeboy]

Like any other addiction we make excuses for our motorcycling habit, the recent Pukekohe double tragedy was a great example. two people die at the event and the event rolled on like nowt has happened???...cries of "that's what the victims would have wanted"..."HTFU"....."that's racing"...and "riders have put a lot of time and money to be here this weekend" , only reinforce how twisted the motorcycle mind can become. Life has become so cheap to us that we make any excuse to continue on with our deadly pursuit.

Just like junkies!

Not sure I agree...racing is a dangerous sport so should it be stopped?...it is part of the risk held by the event...I mean war does not stop when people start dying...however, the fallen are still remembered...that is the important thing

I am sure that the 2 guys killed would not want to have spoiled the fun...

[Quasievil]

You have some pertinent insights. One thing as a biker is we forget of the impact on our families and friends when we make those serious mistakes. Having screwed up and made one of those mistakes I have put real pressure on the ones I love. This one of the hardest things I have to live with.

This was the point I was trying to make earlier (page three ?) anyhow yes exactly, its not just about the individual riding, youre either dead or injured, if Dead you have it easy, youre gone. The real impact is on those you leave to cope with the trauma of loosing their Dad their Husband their Son or Friend, thats where the damage is.
Riding in a dangerous manner is nothing but a SELFISH ACT nothing less.

I remember last year the pitts with you and Shaun, I was getttng ready to go out on the track and I really really struggled with it.............why? you where both mates and you where both in wheelchairs, it was like WTF this shit aint worth it, Im buying a adventure bike ! (not thats a super safe option) I could see clearly there was ZERO future in sportsbikes on the road. ZERO

[jrandom]

... this shit aint worth it, Im buying a adventure bike ! (not thats a super safe option) I could see clearly there was ZERO future in sportsbikes on the road. ZERO

Actually, this has a lot to do why why I'm riding a GSX1400 instead of a B-King.

Slower is faster - you tend to actually arrive.

[Quasievil]

personally ,I believe strongly the racing on Sunday should have been stopped, think of the trauma the event organisers , the marshalls, the other riders,the Ambo's the witnesses, the spectators where under.
For me why would it be necessersary to put those people back into "lets race mode" and deny them the chance to well GET OVER IT at least a little.
Its only a fucking race, who cares , People first racing LAST

[Dave_G]

The thing is you can wring your hands all you like about people who die as a result of riding a bike, either on the track or on the road. But the reason they were doing that in the first place is that they have an absolute passion for it, otherwise they (and me) wouldn't get on one. If you don't have that then don't do it, but if you do have that passion you will ride regardless of the statistics, and you will ride in the way that you enjoy, whether thats cruising at the speed limit or balls out on a sports bike. I haven't met too many who only ride a bike for the transport, its more than that for most, and if someone you know does die riding, you pause, you take stock, you remember them (always) but you move on, maybe wiser maybe not, everyones different and it would be a boring place if they weren't.

[Motu]

It is very interesting to read what you (with all due respect ) oldtimers think of the matter. You all seem to have lost mates to motorcycling one way or the other.

I haven't read this thread,it doesn't interest me.....but I've been riding bikes a long,long time,and I've been to a few funerals along the way too - but I don't think I've ever been to a funeral of a friend who died on a motorcycle.The only close friend who died in a motorcycle crash,I didn't get to his funeral because of a transport hic up that left me no time to get there.Maybe I just have the wrong sort of friends....I have known a lot of people who died on bikes,but they weren't mates.Still,plenty of time to go yet.....at my stage in life funerals seem to crop up often enough.

[Radar]

I know that the loss would shatter these peoples lives should I die at a young age - no matter the reason. I don't hold any beliefs in afterlife or anything like it, when it's over it's over and that's the end of the story. Still, I actively choose to engage in an activity that is potentially, and more so than many others, fatal - knowing and accepting the inherent risks. It's my choice every time I get on the bike - I accept that responsibility and hope that I won't let anyone down handling that responsibility!

I am absolutely certain the ones that care for me would want it no other way!

Its not just about death from a bike accident, but life long debilitating injuries.

Getting snuffed out in an instant by slamming into a truck is one thing, but then I think of my friend here in Masterton, who is in a wheel chair for life with no bladder control and a gimp arm. She spent ONE YEAR in hospital and suffered great emotional pain as well as the physical.

Mikkel, I am not criticizing your post; I do in fact understand what you say and can see where you are coming from. This probably rings true for many of us: [Mikkel says] "I chose to take up motorcycling for purely selfish reasons and have the good fortune to have a partner that accept and support my interests in that regard." I thought about this thread yesterday coming down from Woodville, fighting to ride in what must have been 100 kph cross winds, first thinking F**k this is crazy! Why am I doing this shiite?" but then laughing at seeing my mate on his big bike getting tossed around also, then laughing at what we were doing, thinking "I love this, crazy as it is, and it sure beats sitting on my ass somewhere!"

Back to my paralyzed friend. That accident was avoidable. Rider error.

Yes I know, some accidents are unavoidable, but good rider skills and quick thinking can get us out of most trouble. There is another thread here on KB where some kids stretched videotape across the street and they flipped out when instead of a bus or car, a bikie rode into it. Things like that could decapitate, but the rider chose to slide his bike to lessen the injury.

We old guys were young once, and to be honest we would have to admit doing some stupid things on a bike way back then, that could have resulted in injury or death. The difference now is with the internet we are connected with a large and helpful community of bikers. For me, reading various views is very helpful.

Quasievil, thanks for creating this thread. Its all very sobering, as others have said.

[Katman]

I remember reading somewhere that, for all the bravado of soldiers at war, the single most common final word uttered by a dying soldier is "Mummy". Not "Mum" or "Mother" or "Ma" - but "Mummy".




Makes you think.

[McJim]

I remember reading somewhere that, for all the bravado of soldiers at war, the single most common final word uttered by a dying soldier is "Mummy". Not "Mum" or "Mother" - but "Mummy".

Innit amazing how all of those Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Korean, French, Spanish and North African soldiers immediatley knew the english diminutive for mother. Even those whose languages don't even contain a diminutive for mother.

Sorry to do this but I suspect your source to be anecdotal at best.

But I know what you're trying to say.

[Katman]

But I know what you're trying to say.

So the German soldiers said "Mutti", the Italian soldiers said...............

Anecdotal maybe, but you know exactly what I'm trying to say.